Lazarus /Tilly Tilley

  General Notes:

See D.A.R. supplemental 739380

26 August 1840 before Charles Bonner, JP of Stokes Co., NC

Appeared JOEL TILLEY, age 75 years last January [makes birth January 1765] to give a deposition on behalf of Sally Sisk Tilley, widow of John Tilley, who was applying for a widow's pension on her deceased husband's Revolutionary War service.

He stated he well remembered his UNCLE John Tilly started and entered the service of the US as a private in the Militia. He served first under Capt. Richard Goode of Surry Co. in the Winter or Spring of the year 1776 for 3 months. He served second in the Fall 1776, volunteered under Capt. Goode for 4 months.

"the next he went as a volunteer and THIS deponent AND HIS FATHER LAZARUS TILLY carried him the said John Tilley to old Richmond then Surry Court house he thinks in the fall of the year 1778 for 5 months tour..."

That is a direct quote from Joel Tilley who certainly ought to have known who his father was! How much clearer testimony do we need than the very words of Joel Tilley born 1765 than this that he is the son of Lazarus Tilley.

The other records that Jan Gerdts and I have posted ought to once and for ever clear up any confusion as to which Lazarus this was and which Joel was the son of Lazarus who went to Shelby Co., KY and died there in 1814. Census records in KY show that Lazarus had to have been born before 1755. Most people estimate his birth as about 1744.

Throw out the LDS Ancestral file, the World Family Tree genealogies and anything else that doesn't show what the actual records show.

Joel further went on to testify that Sally Sisk and John Tilley married some 4 or 5 years after the war he believed in May 1785 or 1786 by William Meredith a JP. He said that Sally and John Tilley had ten children and the first he believed was named Edmund who he says is 57 years old and the next child was Martin. Then he goes on and names all the rest of Sally and John's children.

This makes this Edmund born 1783 [1840 minus 57 years] which of course is earlier than the years he cited as when they married. In any event, if the order of the children and approximate ages are calculated, you will see that John and Sally's son Bennett would likely have been born no earlier than say 1785-1790 and there is no way on God's earth that he could be the Bennett Tilley who was head of household in 1790 with 3 sons as stated in the "Early Families of NC Counties of Rockinghanm and Stokes with Revolutionary War Service."
*****************
I'm posting the following tax lists for 1774 for Surry Co., NC which I think perhaps will help in sorting out the NC Tilley families. I found these lists in a soft bound book at the NC Archives years ago. I found it just before they were to close and I didn't have a chance to get through the whole book but this is all of the 1774 list.

In 1774, Surry County would have encompassed a much larger area than present Surry Co. but it would NOT have included Orange County.

Capt. John Detherage's District (which covered the upper part of what is now Stokes Co.):
On or near Croked [Crooked] Creek: James Tilley & John Tilley, son 2 White Polls

On or Near Dan River: Lazarus Tilley & Negro Sal 2 White Polls

Capt. Benj. Cleveland's District (largely in what is now Wilkes Co. and the upper part of what is now Surry Co.):

Stephen Tilley 1 White poll
Henry Tilley & Lewis Tilley 2 White Polls

Capt. Hickman's District (NE part of present Stokes Co. near Rockingham Co. Line):

Henry Tille J. [Jr?] 150 Acres 1 White Poll
John Tille 1 White Poll
Bennet Tille 150 Acres 1 White Poll
Henry Tille 199 Acres 1 White Poll 1 Black Poll

Capt. Gain's District (Part of present Stokes Co. near Village of Westfield):
Edmund Tilley 150 acres 1 White Poll
Lazarus Tilley 152 Acres 1 White Poll 1 Black Poll
James Tilley Jr. 200 acres 1 White Poll
Henry Tilley 150 Acres 1 White Poll
James Tilley 300 Acres 1 White Poll
*************
The only problem with your listing of children is that they don't appear to match what is revealed in Henry Tilley's will and the final settlement of his estate.

From records of Surry County, NC, Will Book 3, p. 1 (NC Archives, Surry Co., Reel 123):

The will dated 13 Sep 1789 has no mention of a wife's name so we can fairly safely assume she was dead before Henry Tilley made his will.

He left to his son JOHN Tilly all his land on waters of Arrarat including the plantation where he was living. He left to his son LAZARUS Tilley all his land on Snow Creek (possibly land that was granted to Henry Tilley on 3 Apr 1780). He ordered that all his moveable estate and negroes be sold and divided among ALL MY CHILDREN. To son EDMOND Tilley he left 10 pounds Virginia money levied out of his estate. He names his son LAZARUS Tilley and William Hankins to be his executors. Wit. were Thomas Dunagan, Jesse Dunagan, and Jesse Bunchs/Burchs. It was signed with a mark which is exactly the same mark you will find on some records in VA--what looks like a capital "I" with a small horizontal cross mark through the center of it and name of the wife on these records in VA up to 1765 was listed as Ann. The last record in VA that I find Ann signing was in 1765. She does not appear to be signing on the deeds in 1771, 1776 when he was still of Albemarle Co., VA. In 1777, he was "of Carolina" but there was no wife signing with him.

Henry Tilley's will was proved at the Feb Term of 1790 in Surry Co., NC.

From Surry Co., NC Will Record Book 2, p. 162:
The inventory of the property was made on 22 Feb 1790 and the estate sale was held on 26 Feb 1790.

p. 187-188
The final settlement, however, was not made until the Feb term of court 1792. At that time the following item appears showing that the legatees agreed to the committees recommendation for settlement of the estate of Henry Tilley and was signed by the legatees: David Graves, Henry Tilley, John x Tilley, Bennet Tilley, Joel Tilley, Edmund Tilley, and Reubin x Wheeler.

We know that Lazarus Tilley who was executor of the estate was also his son because he was so named in the will. These signers are undoubtedly the other children listed as "all my children" in his will that were to receive a division of his moveable estate after it was sold. Clearly, there are two daughters: one who was married to David Graves and one who was married to Reubin Wheeler.

Now, back to some of the VA records. The Lazarus Tilly who died in 1744 in Orange Co., VA apparently did not leave a will as has been implied. He must have died without a will since his widow, Margaret, applied for letters of administration on the estate. If he had a will, she would have been an executor (or more precisely executrix). One of the people posting security for her was Henry Tilly who signed with the same exact mark as found on the will in Surry Co., NC dated 1789.

However, when Margaret Tilly, the apparent widow of Lazarus Tilly, sold some of the land in 1756, the Henry Tilly selling it with her signed his name. When you continue to read land sales in this area of Albemarle, Orange, and Louisa County, it appears that the Henry Tilley who signed his name was listed as a Henry Tilley Jr. and his wife's name was Jean or likely alternatively Jane.

This Henry Tilley Jr. (clearly not son of the Henry Tilley of the 1789 will in Surry Co.) appears to have died about 1786 in Surry Co., NC and his widow, Jane Tilley was granted letters of administration on his estate. But, he was already identified as a Henry Tilley Jr. on a 20 Sep 1761 deed in Albemarle Co., VA.

What has to be kept in mind here is that in those days a "JR" did not necessarily mean "son of" but could have been used to indicate that he was junior in age to another man of the same name in the area--possibly an Uncle or even cousin.

It is my gut level feeling that perhaps the Henry Tilley whose wife was Ann and who was security for widow Margaret on Lazarus Tilley's (d. 1744) estate was perhaps a brother of Lazarus. Perhaps Lazarus' son Henry Tilley was not yet of age to be able to be named in the administration but by the year 1756 when the land was sold he was of age and thus signed with his mother.

The tithables for Orange Co., VA also seem to suggest this could be the case.
*********************
Hello, I am related thru Henry b. 1754 the brother of Lazarus, I don't believe the James and Ann were married in NC. but there is a record in Ky where they were married on July 18 1807, wile visiting the archives in KY I met a fellow named Richardson who for years has been working on his family line including the Tilley's after tellin him who I was he was very generouse with helping me, what a coincidence and a great person, I believe I found the cemeterey where Lazarus was burried but no head stone, there was a head stone of Mary Ann his daughter I believe , but had no last name, very large lettering on a huge slap of stone atop a stone surounding,most of the little cemetery had no stones, you say that Ann moved to Macon Mo ? another qouincidence, you see the brother of your Lazarus......Bennet Tilly moved there shortly after the Revolution war as he too was a Veteran of the Revolution as ws Lazarus, Edmund, Henry,we havent found all the information yet as to the correct father but my Lazarus's father was Henry Tilly of wich I found a form that states he and his father were from Scotland. another sercher says his ancestor Lazarous of Orange County is also suppose to be from Scotland but we are all trying to find some proof in paper of this. unfortunately it hasn't been found by us pc, internet users yet but believe it would be found shortly. do you have all the info you need from KY ? there's a lot to be discovered there still too, I have some so if you don't have it let me know. I would like to have some of what you have on your James and Ann in MO.
From Carl Tilley
**************

  Research Notes:

More info on the Joel Tilley of Stokes Co, NC, son of Lazarus Tilley who removed to Shelby Co, KY, before 1799, according to deed of land to Joel Tilley, Stokes Co, NC Deed Bk 3, p. 352.

Among other info forwarded to me by Glenn Schultz is a deed in Shelby Co, KY Deed Bk VI, p. 74, 75, 76, made 21st Sep 1816 FROM
Joel Tilley & Betsy,(signed Elizabeth) his wife, Jesse Simmons & Nancy Simmons of Stokes County, NC and Aaron Tilley & Nancy, his wife, Lazarous Tilley & Caty Tilley, his wife, Moses Tilley & Betsey, (signed Elizibeth) his wife, Richard Graves & Nelly, his wife, James Richardson & Anna, his wife, Woody Burge & Betsey, his wife, Henry Lisley & Polly,(signed Mary Ann) his wife, Aggatha (signed X) Mitchell of Shelby Co., KY TO: Henry Tilley of Shelby Co, KY. The above persons are heirs of Lazarus Tilley, dec'd. Henry paid the grantors $563.46 for land lying in Shelby Co, KY on the waters of Beech Cr. bounded by Aaron Tilley, containing 182 ac & 84 poles. Witnesses were Samuel Timley or Tinsley, William Tilley & Jno. G. Robertson.

The deed was proven in Shelby Co. court, 21 Oct 1816 by Joel & Elizabeth, Aaron & Nancy, Lazarus & Caty, Woody Berge & Betsey, Richard Graves & Nelly, James Richardson & Anna, Henry Lisley & Mary Ann, & Agatha Mitchell on oath of Samuel Timly a subscribing witness. 21Nov 1817, it was proven on oath of Wm Tilley another witness & 17 Jan 1818, deed was acknowledged by Moses Tilley. & 7 Mar 1818, deed was acknowledged by Elizabeth Tilley wife of Moses & Elizabeth was examined apart from her husband. 19 May 1826 deed was acknowledged by R.D. Tilley att. in fact for Jesse Simmons & Nancy, his wife, and recorded.

In Lazarus' will, Will Bk 3, p. 124, dated 2 Apr 1814, he leaves his real estate to "all my children" to be divided equally. Son Henry undertook to make a crop for him year of 1814. Shelby co, KY Court Order Bk 4, p. 126 A, the will was produced in court. Inventory is at Will Bk 3, p. 214; Estate Sale is at Will Bk 3, p. 217

Another deed in Shelby Co, KY Bk N, p. 250, 28 May 1816, John Howe & Rachel, his wife of Hardin Co. KY, to Joel Tilly, Nancy Simmons late Nancy Tilly, Aaron Tilly, Lazarus Tilly, jr. Moses Tilly, Henry Tilly, Nelly Graves late Nelly Tilly, Ann Richardson late Ann Tilly, Betsey Burge late Betsey Tilly, Aggatha Mitchell late Aggatha Tilly, Polly Lisley late Polly Tilly, children heirs & devisees of Lazarus Tilly, of Shelby Co, dec'd.

Again, Shelby Co, KY Deed Bk M, p. 71, Joel Tilley of Stokes Co, NC gives Henry Tilley of Shelby Co, KY his power of attorney 4 Sep 1814.

All to show that in 1816, children of LAZARUS TILLEY who removed to Shelby, KY from Stokes, NC abt 1799 are: JOEL TILLEY & NANCY SIMMONS of Stokes Co, NC, HENRY, AARON, LAZARUS, & MOSES TILLEY and BETSY BURGE, NELLY GRAVES, ANN RICHARDSON, MARY ANN LISLEY, & AGGATHA MITCHELL of Shelby Co, KY.

I hope that this, along with what Gail has presented will clear up some confusion (and not cause more!) Please check Shelby records for confirmation of this and further information on this family. There is a lot there between deeds, wills, marriages, etc.
***************
There is another item that might be considered in making the decision of whether the Joel Tilley giving the deposition on behalf of John Tilley's widow Sally Sisk was Edmund Tilley's son Joel or whether he was Lazarus Tilley's son Joel.

When Edmund Tilley Sr. applied for a Revolutionary War Pension, in his declaration made on 18 Jan 1834, he said that the only ones living who can testify to his service were David Tilley Sr. and John Maib Senr.

David Tilley is almost certainly his own son who was enumerated next to him on the 1790 Census where he was over 16 years old (thus born before 1774 and probably earlier) and was also named in his will.

If Joel Tilley (b. 1765) who gave the deposition in 1840 could attest to the service of John Tilley in the Revolution, would it seem reasonable that he would also have been able to testify about his own father Edmund's service, if in fact Edmund was his father? There is only one Joel Tilley listed in the 1830 and 1840 Census of Stokes Co. (both years give age range 1760-1770 for him) so it would seem reasonable to me to think that Edmund would have also given Joel's name as someone who could attest to his service.
*************
Lazarus Tilley, son of Edmund of Wilkes, m. Sarah Davis 9 Aug 1787 in Wilkes, NC. The Edmund of Wilkes is a different Edmund than the one of Surry/Stokes, NC. Lazarus of Surry/Stokes was a bro to Edmund of Surry/Stokes, sons of Henry d.1790 Surry, NC. Lazarus removed to Shelby, KY late 1790's & d. 1816, Shelby, KY.