Gertrude Mary Penny nee Bounds

Mary Gertrude Bounds

Birth Name Mary Gertrude Bounds 1a
Nick Name Gerty
Married Name Gertrude Mary Penny 2a
Gender female
Age at Death 74 years, 5 months, 4 days

Events

Event Date Place Description Notes Sources
Birth 28 September 1880 Knighton, Radnorshire, Wales  
1a 3a
Education 1891   Scholar
4a
Marriage 19 October 1905 Canterbury City of, Kent, England  

St Mildred Church
Witnesses
Lo Worsley
Eliza Bryant
Helen P Penny

They had one son, who was raised by Ernest after they divorce.
It is well known that my grand aunt Gertrude had lost a daughter in infancy.
A relation said that Gertrude had told her that she had met Ernest at a dance in London.

2a 5a 6a 6b
Divorce before 1919   Ernest remarried

Something happened and she left her husband, who kept their only child Robert and brought him up. Joy by e-mail
.
Was it due to Ernest being so long in the Army ? Les T

6c 7a
Death March 1955 Hereford, Herefordshire, England aged 74
8a
Cause Of Death     Cancer of the colon.
6d
Burial 1955 Leominster, Herefordshire, England Priory Church

Son Robert did not attend. Perhaps he was abroad or something.

6d
Occupation 1939   Companion
3a
  Addresses  
 
Residence 1881 Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales Church Street

James Bounds Head Married 40 1841 Stone Mason Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales
Jane E Bounds Wife Married 32 1849 Stone Masons Wife Herefordshire
James J Bounds Son Single 4 1877 Scholar Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales
Walter Bounds Son Single 3 1878 Scholar Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales
Mary G Bounds Daughter Single 0 1881 - Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales

9a
Residence 1891 Knighton, Radnorshire, Wales Broad Street, Presteigne

Jane E Bounds Head Widow 41 1850 - Hereford
James J Bounds Son 14 1877 Bakers Boy Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales
Walter Bounds Son 13 1878 Errand Boy Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales
Mary G Bounds Daughter 10 1881 Scholar Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales
William E Bounds Son 7 1884 Scholar Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales
Eleanor E Bounds Daughter 5 1886 - Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales
Jane A Bounds Daughter 3 1888 - Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales
Edith A Bounds Daughter 0 1891 - Presteigne, Radnorshire, Wales

4a
Residence 1901   Census not found
 
Residence 1905 Canterbury City of, Kent, England  
2a
Residence 1908 Canterbury City of, Kent, England  
1b
Residence 1911 Hislop Barracks Trimulgherry Deccan India Overseas Military

Gertrude, Ernest and son Robert

10a
Residence 1939 Fulham, London, England 16 Vereker Road

4 people in house
Lily Eyre 04 Jun 1903 Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Cyril Parry 25 Aug 1916 Telecommnication Lincesee Single
Florence E Law 27 Nov 1900 Ledger Clerk Single
Gertrude M Penny 28 Sep 1880 Companion Divorced

3a
Residence about 1947 Byton, Presteigne, Powys, Mid Wales  

With her sister

6e
Residence about 1948 Leominster, Herefordshire, England Yarpole
6f
Residence about 1950 Leominster, Herefordshire, England Moved into a flat

Where she knew a lot of people, and also one of her brothers lived there.

6g

Parents

Relation to main person Name Relation within this family (if not by birth)
Father James Bounds
Mother Jane Reynolds
         Mary Gertrude Bounds
    Sister     Eleanor Elizabeth Bounds
    Sister     Jane Annie Bounds
    Sister     Edith Agnes Bounds

Families

    Family of Ernest Humpheries Penny and Mary Gertrude Bounds
Married Husband Ernest Humpheries Penny
   
Event Date Place Description Notes Sources
Marriage (Primary) 19 October 1905 Canterbury City of, Kent, England  

St Mildred Church
Witnesses
Lo Worsley
Eliza Bryant
Helen P Penny

They had one son, who was raised by Ernest after they divorce.
It is well known that my grand aunt Gertrude had lost a daughter in infancy.
A relation said that Gertrude had told her that she had met Ernest at a dance in London.

2a 5a 6a 6b
  Children
  1. Robert Ernest Penny

Media

Gertrude Mary Penny nee Bounds

Gertrude Mary Penny nee Bounds

Narrative

Anyway, Gertrude came to live with my parents when I was a baby because she had become homeless when a sister she had been living with at Byton Shop, Nr Presteigne, had decided to sell up and move in with a niece.
.
My mother said that Gertrude would never mention her previous life or her husband, but once said that her son, Robert, only ever made contact with her if he wanted money.
.
On one occasion my mother noticed that Gertrude had opened a large trunk and she could see a photo of a man in army uniform with several medals. When she asked her if that was her husband, Gertrude said she did not want to talk about him and brought the lid down shutting the trunk. Joy by e-mail 16 September 2015
[For Gertrude to have kept a photo of Ernest this long [who else could it be], she must have really loved him and still did. Les T]
.
She was like a grandmother to me when I was small, and I remember whenever we met her in Leominster she would give me a hug and a kiss and then hand me a Cadbury's Fudge Bar in a yellow wrapper that she had in the pocket of her fur coat.
Joy by e-mail 16 September 2015

I wonder what happened to their marriage because they were out in India in 1911 and now you have found Ernest marrying someone else in 1919!
I seem to remember being told that Ernest kept Robert and brought him up, so she must have returned to her family in Herefordshire about that time. Certainly my father used to talk about his two aunts, Annie and Gertie, at Byton Shop so presumably she ended up there following the divorce.
Joy by e-mail 28 September 2015

Narrative

The Edith Gertrude you have found would have been Gertrude's daughter because her youngest sister was Edith. Sadly Edith Bounds was born following the death of her father. James Bounds died from flu in 1890 leaving his wife Jane with all those children. Sadly Jane died within a year or two following some surgery.
My grandmother said that she had been putting a heavy blanket on the washing line when she suddenly collapsed and died. It is believed that this was probably a clot following the surgery.
The children were then handed to various relatives to bring up - all very sad.
Joy by e-mail 21 September 2015

Narrative

Robert is, as you put it also a challenge !
It appears that they divorce ? between return from India 1914 and 1919, but Ernest was in the Army and if he had Robert at this time, who took care of him before Ernest second marriage ?
I can not find when Ernest returned from France or when he was discharged but he could have returned before the end of WW1 and was stationed in UK and met his 2nd wife then and may not have taken Robert till his second marriage.
I doubt he was discharged before 1918/1919 so no real time to meet and marry someone, so must have met her before his discharge. Les T

I now remember my father's sister, Gwendoline, who lived in Guildford, once saying that she knew Robert and liked him. She was born about 1916 (Robert would have been about 7 years older) so he must have been with his mother or visiting the family around that area at some time when my aunt would have been old enough to have got to know him. Joy

Have you put your finger on it ??
For Gwendoline to have "Known and liked" Robert, she would have to have been 7 or more ? [A 5 year old would be to young ?]

In the past it was very rare for a husband to have the children, except if he wife died.

So Robert would have been about 14 [1922] and his father's second marriage 3 years old.
This raises the possibility that it was Robert who asked to go and live with his father ?
This would be hard on his mother Gertrude as she would have suffered the lost of her husband and now her son. Les T

Narrative

Yes,  it would have been very hurtful for my great aunt Gertrude if her only child Robert did decide to leave and go to live with his father, though it may have been that they had no choice.  There would not have been much future for him living with his mother and aunt at Byton Shop in a very rural area, and I think he would have had far more opportunities down south with his father.  My aunt Gwen did not say how old she was when she met Robert, but if he had been with his mother she would certainly have met him.  Thinking about it, she may also have met him years later because when she married she lived in Surrey so may have contacted him and they met again.
Joy e-mail 5.01.2016

Pedigree

  1. James Bounds
    1. Jane Reynolds
      1. Mary Gertrude Bounds
        1. Ernest Humpheries Penny
          1. Robert Ernest Penny
      2. Eleanor Elizabeth Bounds
      3. Jane Annie Bounds
      4. Edith Agnes Bounds

Ancestors

Source References

  1. English Government: Birth Registration - Find my Past
      • Date: December 1880
      • Page: Mary Gertrude Bounds
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Citation:

        District KNIGHTON
        County Radnorshire
        Country Wales
        Volume 11B
        Page 129
        Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006

      • Date: December 1908
      • Page: Robert Ernest 1908
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Citation:

        District CANTERBURY
        County Kent
        Country England
        Volume 2A
        Page 891
        Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006

  2. Parish Records: Certificate - Marriage - Parish Record
      • Date: 19 October 1905
      • Page: Army Record - Mary Gertrude Bounds and Ernest Humpheries Penny
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Citation:

        County Kent
        Country England
        Archive Canterbury Cathedral Archives
        Archive reference U3/89
        Year range 1895-1909
        Page 95
        Record set Kent, Canterbury Archdeaconry marriages 1538-1928

  3. English Government: 1939 Census - Find my Past
      • Date: 29 September 1939
      • Page: Ref: RG101/0139E/001/31 Letter Code:
      • Confidence: Very High
  4. English Government: 1891 Census - Find my Past
      • Date: 6 April 1891
      • Page: Mary Gertrude Bounds
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Citation:

        Registration district Knighton
        Archive reference RG12
        Piece number 4581
        Folio 51
        Page 10
        Record set 1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

  5. British Army: British Army - Pre WW1 - Service records
      • Date: 18 October 1905
      • Page: Mary Gertrude Bounds
      • Confidence: Very High
  6. Joy Walker nee Barker: E-mails from Joy Walker nee Barker
      • Date: 16 September 2015
      • Page: In E-mail file
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Date: 28 November 2015
      • Page: E-mail in file
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Date: 16 September 2015
      • Page: In E-mail file
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Date: 21 November 2015
      • Page: In E-mail file
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Date: 16 September 2015
      • Page: In E-mail file
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Date: 16 September 2015
      • Page: In E-mail file
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Date: 21 September 2015
      • Page: E-mail in file
      • Confidence: Very High
  7. English Government: Marriage Registration - Find my Past
      • Date: June 1919
      • Page: 2q-1919-Thanet, Kent-Vol.2a-page.3010 Ernest Humpheries Penny
      • Confidence: Very High
  8. English Government: Death Registration - Find my Past
      • Date: March 1955
      • Page: Mary Gertrude Bounds
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Citation:

        District HEREFORD
        County Herefordshire
        Volume 9A
        Page 9
        Country England
        Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

  9. English Government: 1881 Census - Find my Past
      • Date: 4 April 1881
      • Page: Jane Bounds nee Reynolds
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Citation:

        Registration district Knighton
        Archive reference RG11
        Piece number 5471
        Folio 42
        Page 18
        Record set 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

  10. English Government: 1911 Census - Find my Past
      • Date: 3 April 1911
      • Page: Mary Gertrude Bounds
      • Confidence: Very High
      • Citation:

        County Overseas Military
        Country Ships And Overseas Establishments
        Archive reference RG14
        Registration district number 641
        Enumeration district 30
        Sub district number 16
        Census reference RG14PN34991 RD641 SD16 ED30 SN9999
        Piece number 34991
        Record set 1911 Census for England & Wales