Haplogroup R1b (DYS390=23) - Part III

Haplogroup R1b (DYS390=23)

The Atlantic Modal Haplotype has many variants. Any basic haplotype that differs from

the AMH values of 14-12-24-11-13-13 by a single step, on any marker, in any direction, is

still considered part of AMH. Most of the haplotypes below exhibit the basic marker

values 14-12-23-11-13-13, which puts them in that category.

The Heyer study of 1997 recorded a mutation rate of zero for DYS390 and DYS393.

Although the DYS390 marker has not exhibited a mutation rate as consistently low as

DYS393 in other studies, the results of the Heyer study suggest that it is a relatively

stable marker. As such, particular values of DYS390 may be acquired less often by

random mutation, and therefore may be more likely to reflect a shared ancestry among

the haplotypes that exhibit them.

Although the Atlantic Modal Haplotype unquestionably originated in Western Europe,

Western Europe is a large place notorious for its cultural diversity. Most scientists apply

Occam's Razor when speculating about the origin of R1b haplotypes found among

persons of British descent. They say that, since the original population of Britain was

most likely R1b, then a person of British descent with that haplotype is descended from

that population.

We think that is a simplistic approach. Also, since we are not scientists and have no

reputation to protect, we are free to speculate a little more adventurously. We have analyzed the

geographical match patterns of DYS390=23 haplotypes in the YSTR, and then compared them

with the geographical match patterns of more modal AMH variations.

We have reached the conclusion that, although DYS390=23 haplotypes may indeed still have

an origin among the aboriginal or "Celtic" natives of Britain, they are more likely than many other

AMH variations to have arrived in Britain from somewhere else. In this case, from the homeland

of the Anglo-Saxons and the Danes - in Denmark, the northern coast of The Netherlands, and

western and northern Germany. This is entirely feasible in view of the fact that up to 40 and 50

percent of the haplotypes found in these areas are R1b.

R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #13

This haplotype has an unusual range for a DYS390=23 R1b haplotype. Among the top ten

frequencies, the highest is in Sweden, Friesland is second, while Eastern Norway ranks sixth.

Brussels, London and Paris all appear, but so do Liguria (near southeastern France),

Portugal and Armenia.

The rest of the hits fall in Germany, Scandinavia and Italy. The other Italian hits are in Sicily,

and in Rome. It is unusual and interesting, but of questionable significance, that this haplotype

scores hits in all of the following world class urban centers - London, Paris and Rome.

As always with R1b, this haplotype could have a Celtic origin.

It may also have a Norman origin. The combination of hits in Scandinavia, the Low

Countries, France, England, Italy and even Asia Minor all suggest an ancestral group with

unusual geographical mobility. Moreover, all of these areas are known as places where the Normans

originated (Scandinavia, France, the Flemish portions of the Low Countries), or where they fought

or conquered territority (England, Sicily, Asia Minor and the Iberian coast).

Yet another possibility are Sephardic Jews or Byzantine Anatolians who settled in the Rhineland and the

Low Countries in the late Roman Era, and finally came to Britain with the Flemish allies of the Normans.

With their strong mercantile traditions, such groups also show great geographical range, and appear in high

proportions in major urban centers.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 30 23 11 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
Gotland, Sweden 2.44
Friesland, Northern Netherlands 2,27
Brussels, Belgium 1.60
Liguria, Western Italy 1.23
London, England 1.21
Eastern Norway 1.18
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg 1.15
South Caucasus [Armenian] 1.00
Paris, France .92
Southern Portugal .89
Cologne, Westphalia .74
Dusseldorf, Westphalia .67
Leipzig, Saxony .61
Sicily, Southern Italy .50
Latium, Central Italy .45
Munich, Bavaria .39
Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt .35
Finland .25
Sweden .25
Gdansk, Northern Poland .18
Chemnitz, Saxony .12

R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #14

This haplotype is rare, but widespread, with hits from Italy to Finland. The highest

frequency is in Friesland, and three other hits are in Western or Northern Germany.

An Anglo-Saxon or Danish origin is a distinct possibility. The one hit in Finland may

itself have a Danish origin.

There are two hits in Eastern Spain, and one in northeastern Italy. All of these areas

were at one time occupied or controlled by the Visigoths, so their appearance here can be

resolved with a Germanic origin for the haplotype.

On the other hand, the hits in Spain, Italy and Cologne may reflect Roman

expansion into Iberia, Southwestern France and up the Rhine. This haplotype

might then have found its way into Britain through Roman conscription, the Flemish

settlement of Sephardic Jews, or a Romanized admixture among the Anglo-Saxons.

A third possibility is that this haplotype originated in Iberia, and has been

present in Britain long before either Celtic, Roman or Anglo-Saxon occupation.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 30 23 11 13 13 11 15

Geographical Locale

%
Friesland, Northern Netherlands 2.27
Liguria, Western Italy 1.23
Cologne, Westphalia .74
Madrid, Central-East Spain .68
Barcelona, Catalonia .45
Finland .25
Berlin, Brandenburg .18
Chemnitz, Saxony .12

R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #15

This is an interesting haplotype. The top frequencies appear in The Netherlands, but also

in Portugal and the Ukraine, followed a mixture of hits in Eastern Germany and Scandinavia,

and among samples of Iberian descent.

This one is hard to interpret. The combination of The Netherlands, Portugal and

parts of Eastern Europe suggest that this haplotype found its way into a Sephardic Jewish

population that spread eastward over the centuries.

An alternate explanation for this match pattern is that the haplotype originated

with the Goths or the Suevi, spread west to Iberia and east to the Ukraine.

This haplotype may have found its way into the British population with Flemish

immigrants after the Norman invasion, or with the Anglo-Saxons.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 14 30 23 10 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
Groningen, Northern Netherlands 2.08
Kiev, Ukraine 1.22
Netherlands 1.15
Southern Portugal .89
Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt .71
Greifswald, Pomerania .48
Barcelona, Catalonia .45
Leipzig, Saxony .45
Antioquia, Colombia .25
Finland .25
Sweden .25
Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] .22
Berlin, Brandenburg .18

R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #16

This origin of this haplotype is indeterminate. A "Celtic" origin is possible.

There is a hit in Ireland, and one in Spain, but the majority fall in the Germanic parts of Europe.

among the five highest frequencies, one each falls in Scandinavia, Holland and Northern

Germany. This combination is usually suggestive of an Anglo-Saxon origin, and that

should be considered a possibility here.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 14 31 23 11 13 13 - -

Geographical Locale

%
Central Norway 2.08
Limburg, Southern Netherlands 2.00
Missouri [European-American] 1.69
Ireland .93
Hamburg, Northern Germany .88
Tyrol, Western Austria .87
Andulacia, Southern Spain .61
Budapest, Hungary .50
Rostock, Mecklenburg .49
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg .23
Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] .22
Leipzig, Saxony .15

R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #17

The highest frequencies for this haplotype occur mostly in Iberia and

the Franco-German Rhineland. Nonetheless, the highest frequency falls

in Sweden and there are two hits in Saxony. A Germanic or

Scandinavian origin is not unlikely, especially considering the

trend for most DYS390=23 R1b haplotypes.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 12 28 23 10 13 13 - -

Geographical Locale

%
Uppsala, Sweden 1.75
Maryland [European-American] 1.56
Andulacia, Southern Spain 1.23
Strasbourg, Alsace 1.01
Southern Portugal .89
Dusseldorf, Westphalia .67
Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg .65
Munich, Bavaria .40
Leipzig, Saxony .30
Chemnitz, Saxony .24
Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] .22

R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #18

Of the top ten frequencies in old world locations, four are in The Netherlands,

three are in Scandinavia, and two are in Germany. Three of the five highest are in

The Netherlands. This haplotype most likely has a Danish or Anglo-Saxon origin.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 28 23 11 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
Zeeland, Netherlands 4.35
Southern Norway 4.00
Louisiana [African-American] 3.45
Friesland, Netherlands 2.27
Groningen, Netherlands 2.08
Denmark 1.59
Maryland [European-American] 1.56
Vienna, Austria 1.52
Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg 1.29
Eastern Norway 1.18
Netherlands 1.15
Leipzig, Saxony 1.06
Leiden, Netherlands 1.04
Greifswald, Pomerania .96
Lausanne, Switzerland .93
Pyrenees, Spain .75
Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt .71
Valencia, Eastern Spain .71
Chemnitz, Saxony .49
Tyrol, Western Austria .44
Warsaw, Central Poland .42
Antioquia, Colombia [European] .25
Sweden .25
Sao Paulo, Brazil [European] .22
Berlin, Brandenburg .18

R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #19

Of the top ten "old world" frequencies for this haplotype, three fall in The

Low Countries, two fall in Scandinavia, two fall in West Germany, and one

falls in London. This haplotype most likely came to Britain with the

Anglo-Saxons or the Danes.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 30 23 11 13 13 - -

Geographical Locale

%
Friesland, Netherlands 4.55
Oregon [European-American] 2.86
Liguria, Italy 2.47
Gotland, Sweden 2.44
Zeeland, Netherlands 2.17
Brussels, Belgium 1.60
Cologne, Westphalia 1.48
Barcelona, Catalonia 1.34
London, England 1.21
Eastern Norway 1.18
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg 1.15
Cape Town, South Africa [European] 1.00
Caucasus [Armenian] 1.00
Paris, France .92
Southern Portugal .89
Pyrenees, Spain .75
Valencia, Spain .71
Madrid, Central-East Spain .68
Dusseldorf, Westphalia .67
New York City [African-American] .67
New York City [European-American] .65
Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg .65
Leipzig, Saxony .60
Lombardy, Italy .55
Sicily, Southern Italy .50
Chemnitz, Saxony .49
Finland .49
Rostock, Mecklenburg .49
Luzon, Phillipines .47
Latium, Italy .45
Munich, Bavaria .39
Berlin, Brandenburg .36
Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt .35
Sweden .25
Sao Paulo, Brazil [European] .22
Gdansk, Poland .18

R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #20

The origin of this haplotype is indeterminate. The highest frequency falls

in a part of Western Poland known for its ethnic German population.

This haplotype may be Celtic, or it may have entered Britain with the

Anglo-Saxons.

(One should note that these marker values are suspiciously close to a common haplotype

for haplogroup "Q". When matching haplotypes also exhibit unusually high marker values for

DYS385a,b, the resemblance to "Q" becomes even stronger. There is a possibility that many

haplotypes with these markers that have been estimated as "R1b" may, in fact, belong to "Q".)

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
13 13 30 23 10 13 13 - -

Geographical Locale

%
Wroclaw, Poland .83
New York City [African-American] .67
Andulacia, Southern Spain .61
Argentina [European] .33

R1b DYS390=23 Haplotype #21

The top two frequencies for the haplotype below fall in Switzerland and Ireland, both traditional Celtic areas.

The other matches are primarily either Baltic or Germanic, but there is nothing here to suggest that this haplotype

could not just as easily have had a Celtic origin as a Teutonic one. In fact, R1b haplotypes with DYS390 values

of 23 and DYS391 values of 10 are often labeled "Alpine" because of their relatively greater frequency in the

Central European homeland of the Celts.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 28 23 10 13 13 11 15

Geographical Locale

%
Lausanne, Switzerland .93
Ireland .66
Bialystok, Poland .55
Munich, Bavaria .40
Argentina [European] .33
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg .23
Chemnitz, Saxony .12