Haplogroup R1b (DYS391=10) Part I

Haplogroup R1b (DYS391=10)

The Atlantic Modal Haplotype has many variants. Any basic haplotype that differs from

the AMH values of 14-12-24-11-13-13 by a single step, on any marker, in any direction, is

still considered part of AMH. The haplotypes below exhibit the basic marker values

14-12-24-10-13-13, which puts them in that category.

Analysis of the various R1b haplotypes with these markers shows predictably high

frequencies in typical Iberian and "Celtic" locales, yet with hints of both Scandinavian or

Germanic influences in many cases. This suggests that this haplotype may have entered

Britain occasionally with the Normans, the Anglo-Saxons or the Flemish, as well as with

the Iberians or the Celts.

We tentatively conclude that DYS391=10 does not signify a subgroup of R1b

with a specific geographical bias.

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #1

Of the top five frequencies here, two occur in The Netherlands, one in Sweden,

one occurs in a part of Northern Italy that was controlled by both Goths and Lombards,

and the fifth occurs in a part of Northern Spain where a Visigothic kingdom once existed.

The next several hits are evenly divided between Northern Iberia and Northern Italy.

The match pattern is not overwhelmingly Iberian, so we cannot assume this

haplotype arrived in Britain from Spain after the last Ice Age, although that is a

possibility. This haplotype may have originated among a later wave of Celtic

speakers, or it may have come to Britain with the Flemish, the Normans,

the Anglo-Saxons, or even Roman colonists.

The combination of Sweden with Northern Iberia and Northern Italy

suggests a possible connection with the Goths, the Suevi and other

participants in The Great Migration of the German tribes.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 12 28 24 10 13 13 - -

Geographical Locale

%
Zeeland, Southwestern Netherlands 2.17
Skaraborg, Sweden 2.13
Netherlands 1.15
Emilia Romagna, Central Italy 1.12
Asturias, Northern Spain 1.11
Lombardy, Northern Italy 1.09
Northern Portugal 1.09
Cordoba, Argentina 1.00
Cantabria, Northern Spain .99
Marche, Eastern Italy .93
Hamburg, Northern Germany .88
Tyrol, Western Austria .87
El Salvador .83
Brussels, Belgium .80
Pyrenees, Spain .76
Valencia, Eastern Spain .71
Madrid, Central-East Spain .68
Central Portugal .54
Budapest, Hungary .51
Barcelona, Catalonia .45
Antioquia, Colombia .25
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg .23
Chemnitz, Saxony .12

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #2

Among the top ten frequencies, five occur among American Hispanics or Iberians.

Denmark, Hamburg and the Sorbian (or Germanic Slav) area of Western Poland also

appear, as do Venice, which has a history of Lombard settlement, and Puglia, which was

conquered by the Norman adventurer, Robert Guiscard.

The rest of the matches are a mix of Iberian and Germanic. Since the YHRD database

contains disproportionately high numbers of both Iberian and Germanic samples, the origin of

this haplotype in a Briton is difficult to estimate.

It could actually be Anglo-Saxon, but the general rule in these cases is to attribute the

haplotype to Celtic-speaking natives of Paleolithic Iberian ancestry.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 28 24 10 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
Pennsylvania [Hispanic-American] 3.13
Connecticut [Hispanic-American] 1.92
Veneto, Northern Italy 1.67
Denmark 1.58
Puglia, Southern Italy 1.43
Madrid, Central-East Spain 1.35
Northern Portugal 1.09
Madeira, Portugal 1.02
Hamburg, Northern Germany .88
Wroclaw, Western Poland .83
Zaragoza, Aragon .83
Pyrenees, Spain .76
New York City [European-American] .65
Andulacia, Southern Spain .61
Munster, Westphalia .51
London, England .40
Chemnitz, Saxony .37
Berlin, Brandenburg .36
Antioquia, Colombia .25
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg .23
Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] .22

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #3

This highest frequencies for this haplotype exhibit a strange mix of Scandinavian

locales and Celtic areas. Iberia is present, but not foremost as it often is with R1b

haplotypes in the YHRD database. Most of the "Celtic" areas are, in fact, locales

which saw the influence of other peoples. Tuscany and Lombardy were conquered

by the Langobardi, of Swedish or Baltic German descent. Alsace lies between Swabia

and Burgundy. Santiago de Compostela was a marketplace for the Vikings and a

place of pilgrimage for the Normans who came to Spain to help drive out the Moors.

Northern Spain and Portugal, although originally Celtic, were also heavily colonized

by the Suevi and the Visigoths.

As it does belong to R1b, there is an excellent chance that this haplotype came

to Britain with the Iberians or the Celts. Nonetheless, the unorthodox match pattern

suggests alternate possibilities - that the haplotype came with the Vikings, the Norman,

the Hiberno-Norse, or even Roman troops of Gothic origin.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 11 13

Geographical Locale

%
Louisiana [African-American] 3.45
Olso, Norway 3.03
Santiago de Compostela, Galicia 2.91
Gotland, Sweden 2.44
Limburg, Southern Netherlands 2.00
Strasbourg, Alsace 1.01
Southern Portugal .89
Riga, Latvia .69
Zagreb, Croatia .67
Lombardy, Northern Italy .55
Antioquia, Colombia .49
Tuscany, Central Italy .46
Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] .45
Munich, Bavaria .39
Berlin, Brandenburg .18

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #4

Styria shows significant archaeological evidence of Celtic settlement, and Cantabria

is a well-known Celtiberian area. Since Spain appears once more here, and both

Northern Italy and Southern Germany have a Celtic past, this haplotype most likely

came to Britain with the Iberians or the Celts.

Nevertheless, let us note that most of these areas were controlled by Goths

at one time - the Visigoths in Catalonia and Northern Spain, and the Ostrogoths

in Italy. Like other R1b haplotypes on this web page which exhibit a DYS391

marker value of 10, there is a hint of an alternative origin among the

Germanic peoples.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 12 15

Geographical Locale

%
Louisiana [European-American] 3.23
Graz, Styria 1.54
Cantabria, Northern Spain .99
Marche, Eastern Italy .93
Barcelona, Catalonia .45
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg .23

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #5

This haplotype is fairly common, with hits all over Europe.

It exhibits high frequencies from samples taken in American states such as Louisiana, Missouri,

Indiana, New York and Pennsylvania. The most consistently high are the Louisiana samples,

which may suggest a French affinity.

Of the top ten frequencies in Europe alone, the four highest occur in Scandinavia, followed

by Strasbourg, Munster, Limburg, Paris, Zaragoza and Lombardy. It is interesting to note that

Strasbourg and Munster lie within or close to areas settled by the Suebians and Burgundians,

both East Germanic tribes with strong ancestral ties to Sweden. Lombardy was settled by the

Langobardi, who may also have been related to the Swedes, and Paris, Zaragoza and Limburg

all fall in or near areas (Northern France, Aragon, Flanders) where the Normans were active.

It is very possible that this haplotype came to Britain with the Normans or the Vikings.

This table contains numerous other hits in East Germany, Scandinavia, even in Russia

and Syria. There are hits in Ireland, Portugal and Spain as well, so a Celtic or Iberian

origin is likely for many who exhibit this haplotype - but not necessarily for all.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 30 24 10 13 13 - -

Geographical Locale

%
Louisiana [Hispanic-American] 6.67
Missouri [European-American] 5.08
Vasterbotten, Sweden 4.88
Virginia [African-American] 4.25
Southern Norway 4.00
Louisiana [African-American] 3.45
Louisiana [European-American] 3.23
Indiana [European-American] 2.94
Oregon [European-American] 2.86
New York City [European-American] 2.58
Blekinge, Sweden 2.38
Pennsylvania [African-American] 2.33
Skaraborg, Sweden 2.13
Munster, Westphalia 2.04
Strasbourg, Alsace 2.02
Buenos Aires, Argentina [Europeans] 2.00
Cordoba, Argentina 2.00
Limburg, Southern Netherlands 2.00
Paris, France 1.83
Zaragoza, Aragon 1.67
Lombardy, Northern Italy 1.65
Brussels, Belgium 1.60
Western Norway 1.56
Graz, Styria 1.54
Pennsylvania [European-American] 1.49
Cologne, Westphalia 1.48
Valencia, Eastern Spain 1.43
Maryland [African-American] 1.37
Dusseldorf, Westphalia 1.33
London, England 1.21
Moscow, Western Russia 1.18
Netherlands 1.15
Emilia Romagna, Central Italy 1.12
Asturias, Northern Spain 1.11
Damascus, Syria 1.00
Cantabria, Northern Spain .99
Marche, Eastern Italy .93
Southern Ireland .93
Leipzig, Saxony .91
Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] .89
Tyrol, Western Austria .87
London, England [Afro-Caribbean] .79
Munich, Bavaria .79
Pyrenees, Spain .77
Bogota, Colombia .68
Madrid, Central-East Spain .68
New York City [African-American] .67
Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg .65
Andulacia, Southern Spain .62
Northern Portugal .55
Central Portugal .54
Chemnitz, Saxony .49
Rostock, Mecklenburg .49
Greifswald, Pomerania .48
Berlin, Brandenburg .36
Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt .35
Antioquia, Colombia .25
Sweden .25

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #6

This haplotype differs from the most common haplotype in the YHRD database by

one marker value - the DYS391 value of 10. It is extremely common in its own right.

Among the top ten non-U.S. frequencies, seven are in Iberia, most of them in Northern

Spain. Two - the second and third highest - are in the Southern Netherlands, near

Flemish territory. Number nine is Southern Norway.

Of the ten next highest non-U.S. hits, three fall in Iberia or Latin America, and

two fall in The Netherlands. Three more occur in areas just to the south of

The Netherlands, one falls in Ireland, one in Sweden.

The American hits are mostly among white, English-speaking populations in southern

or rural states where there is a high proportion of Scots-Irish.

This haplotype could be found anywhere in Europe, but the rule of thumb for a R1b

of British descent is an origin among the Paleolithic Iberians or the Celtic speakers of

Western and Central Europe.

Nonetheless, the persistent combination of high frequencies in both Iberia and The

Netherlands, along with a definite hint of Scandinavia, does suggest a possible connection

to Sephardic Jews or other Iberians who settled in Flanders or Brittany, then later joined

the Normans in the conquest of England. That ancestry may apply in at least some cases,

even if the majority of "Border Reivers" with this haplotype descend from native Britons.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
Madeira, Portugal 11.22
Zeeland, Southwestern Netherlands 8.69
Limburg, Southern Netherlands 8.00
Texas [European-American] 6.41
Indiana [European-American] 5.88
Valencia, Eastern Spain 5.71
Missouri [European-American] 5.08
Cantabria, Northern Spain 4.95
Asturias, Northern Spain 4.44
Florida [Hispanic-American] 4.35
Zaragoza, Aragon 4.17
Madrid, Central-East Spain 4.05
Southern Norway 4.00
Santiago de Compostela, Galicia 3.88
Lausanne, Western Switzerland 3.70
Pennsylvania [European-American] 3.51
Louisiana [Hispanic-American] 3.33
Virginia [European-American] 3.28
Barcelona, Catalonia 3.13
Leiden, Western Netherlands 3.13
Northern Spain [Basque] 2.98
Southern Ireland 2.80
Bogota, Colombia 2.72
Dusseldorf, Westphalia 2.67
Munster, Westphalia 2.55
Gotland, Sweden 2.44
Pennsylvania [African-American] 2.33
Friesland, Northern Netherlands 2.27
Pyrenees, Spain 2.27
Cologne, Westphalia 2.22
Caceres, Central-West Spain 2.19
Northern Portugal 2.19
Florida [African-American] 2.17
Virginia [Hispanic-American] 2.17
Oregon [African-American] 2.13
Skaraborg, Sweden 2.13
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg 2.09
Central Norway 2.08
Groningen, Northern Netherlands 2.08
London, England 2.02
Buenos Aires, Argentina [Europeans] 2.00
Munich, Bavaria 1.99
Antioquia, Colombia 1.97
Umbria, Central Italy 1.96
Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg 1.94
Greifswald, Pomerania 1.92
Mainz, Rhineland-Palatinate 1.92
Veneto, Northern Italy 1.66
Lombardy, Northern Italy 1.65
Bolivia [Bolivian Amerindians] 1.64
Central Portugal 1.62
Denmark 1.59
Vienna, Austria 1.52
Guarani, Argentina [Amerindians] 1.47
Chemnitz, Saxony 1.46
Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt 1.41
Maryland [African-American] 1.37
Texas [Hispanic-American] 1.35
Tehran, Iran 1.25
Eastern Norway 1.18
Bern, Switzerland 1.09
Szeged, Hungary 1.00
Bydoszcz, Northern Poland 1,19
Rostock, Mecklenburg .99
Sweden .99
Marche, Eastern Italy .93
Paris, France .92
Tuscany, Central Italy .92
Latium, Central Italy .90
Southern Portugal .89
Hamburg, Northern Germany .88
Tyrol, Western Austria .87
Warsaw, Central Poland .83
Leipzig, Saxony .76
Choco, Colombia .75
New York City [African-American] .67
New York City [Hispanic-American] .67
New York City [European-American] .65
Berlin, Brandenburg .55
Budapest, Hungary .51
Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] .45
Gdansk, Northern Poland .37

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #7

The highest frequencies for this haplotype occur in Ireland, France and Eastern Spain,

but all of the frequencies here are based on single hits and none are high.

There are several hits in Germany and Eastern Europe that could suggest a Gothic

connection, as the Goths were also in France and Spain.

This haplotype most likely came to Britain with the Iberians or the Celts,

or it may have arrived with the Norman conquest - in which the case the

Celts would have been Bretons, and the Iberians might have been

Visigoths from Aquitaine or Sephardic Jews from Bordeaux.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 11 16

Geographical Locale

%
Southern Ireland .93
Paris, France .92
Zaragoza, Aragon .83
Valencia, Eastern Spain .71
Zagreb, Croatia .67
Bydgoszcz, Northern Poland .59
Antioquia, Colombia .49
Greifswald, Pomerania .48
Latium, Central Italy .45
London, England .40
Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt .35
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg .23

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #8

This haplotype is most likely Iberian-Celtic in origin. The top hits are in Portugal,

Ireland, England and Latin America.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 31 24 10 13 13 - -

Geographical Locale

%
Central Portugal 1.08
Southern Ireland .93
London, England .81
Buenos Aires, Argentina [Europeans] .67
Dusseldorf, Westphalia .67
Northern Portugal .55
Munster, Westphalia .51
Munich, Bavaria .39
Sao Paulo, Brazil [Europeans] .22
Leipzig, Saxony .15

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #9

This haplotype is derived from a Ysearch entry that had apparently been

SNP-tested as R1b. Nonetheless, its DYS392 value of 15 deviates greatly

from the norm.

All the European hits fall in Northern Italy and Northeastern Germany, which

suggests a connection with Germanic tribes like the Langobardi and the Goths.

There is a hit in Argentina, but that country has many citizens of German and

Italian descent.

This haplotype no doubt originated in Paleolithic Europe, but does not

necessarily indicate Iberian or Celtic ancestry.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 15 13 - -

Geographical Locale

%
Liguria, Western Italy 1.23
Buenos Aires, Argentina [Europeans] .67
Lombardy, Northern Italy .55
Greifswald, Pomerania .48
Leipzig, Saxony .15