Origins
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Origins
of this
particular
McFie
family




It is not intended that an in-depth study or undertaking be presented in the web page, there are several very complete and complex studies done on the origins of the McFie, Macfie , or as we have been led to believe the MacDhubhsith.
Should one wish to delve further into the origins of this wonderful family it is suggested that they purchase the volumes of - The Mythology, Traditions and History of the MacDHUBHSITH - MacDuffie Clan -
researched, complied and written by Earle Douglas Macphee, M.M.,M.A.,LL.D., D.U.C., D.C.L., Emeritus Dean of the University of British Columbia, Canada ,now deceased.

( these can be obtained by directing an E-mail to Mrs Barbara MacPhee) .

For those of you who are more inclined to use the internet to obtain your information there are many sites on the system that have produced large quantities of information on MacDHUBHSITH .
It is recommended however that you visit the official Macfie site,

containing quality information, sanctioned by the Commander of Clan Macfie, Mr Iain Morris McFie of Kingussie, Scotland.
Any questions that you may seek answers for should be directed to his attention.

The many other sites that portray themselves as official Macfie sites contain great quantities of interesting information however before accepting this as the gospel truth
remember that you are dealing with mythologies. Wonderful stories told generation to generation, embellished by the story tellers themselves , the true beginnings impossible to verify.

THE D N A PROJECT
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As to the origins of the Macfie family who became known as theSugar Macfies , we have so far been unable to establish facts much before 1680,
and even then until 1710 the information is uncertain. Attached to a letter written in 1849 by Jessie Macfie Thorbun to her brother John Macfie is a somewhat uncolarborated list of
vaguely related family information.

McPhees or Macfie ( extract 1849 )

Lachan McPhee of Adonaclach, who is mentionned on the Ragmans Rolls in 1431, married Greas ( Grace) 3rd daughter of Fergus Mackinnon of Ardehingte , whose uncle was Abbot of Iona circ 1397. Lachan McPhee was knighted by James I ,
after the suppression of the rebellion of Donal Ballack , kinsman of Alastair �MacDonald , Lord of the Isles. His arms were a Loin rampart , gules etc. His son Ian Dhu ( McPhee) followed the fortunes of Archibald Douglas, Earl of Moray and was killed in 1455 in a skirmish at Arkinholm, Eskdale.

His decendants settled as petty baron near Sanquhar and the best knows was Robert McPhee of the Cragie Knowne , who was hanged for sheep stealing in 1573. After this misfortune the family seems to have fallen into poverty.

We next hear of Dougald McPhee who was either grandson or great grandson of this Robert and who was Parish Minister of Colonsay. He was buried in Colonsay in 1615 and his tombstone can still be deciphered ( 1849). This Dougald's eldest son Hamish married Margaret McNeil in 1610, her brother was a McLeod of West. In the family Bible she is described as " Beau wee wife with a strong family " Her son who was known as Hamish Mahe was said to have been over seven feet high and a grand player of the pipes.

This Hamish's great grandson , william migrated to Greenock and seems to have been the first of his family to speel the name Macfie. From this point the descent is easy to trace, the present representation is now in Austrlia ( 1849).

The well known sugar refinery family are cadets of a younger brother .

From a more modern revision of the familiy papers the recorded story is that one Robert Mcfie, a seafaring man, of Rothesay , on the Isle of Bute, Scotland who may have or may not have plied his trade in and around the Irish sea,
decided at one point that he would try his hand at farming, and settled on the main land near West Kilbride , Aryshire. There is recorded in some family papers a suggestion that this Robert who was allegedly born about 1680,
(
His father could well have been Donald McFie, tacksman of Colonsay in 1651 and 1652, and his grandfather was Rev. Dugald McPhee "Parish Minister" of Colonsay who died in 1615,
the son of Seamus or James Mor McPhee a famous piper . The immediate difficulty concerns the status of the Parish Minister - Colonsay remained notoriously catholic until 1647,
but of course the role of Prior had become hereditary in the McPhee family long before the Reformation)
.
There are no records as to the connection between these three persons , so it is very difficult indeed to state that the origins of the Sugar Macfie family can be found on the Island of Colonsay

In the University of Glasgow, Scotland, there are 35 boxes of family papers, and other paraphernalia that contain invaluable information on the Sugar Macfies,
however these records do not allow one to get past the most basic dates of 1710. There was a book written in 1938, titled - John Macfie of Edinburgh and his family - written by his great grandson,
John William Scott Macfie, in which the author states that his great grandfather John, who died n his 70th year " had preserved nearly all the letters, he received, infact almost every scrap of paper excepting newspapers. He had folded them neatly, docketed them, and made them up into bundles, month by month, and the at the end of the year wrapped them in a brown paper parcel, which he carefully labeled and put away - (a solid block of from 3,000 to 4,000 documents):"

These papers were first stored at Dreghorn Castle then ,after the death of John, moved to Rowton Hall, where they were reread and some burned during the quiet winter months. Upon the death of Robert Andrew Macfie ,John's son, the remaining papers were transported to Shaws where they were stored in conditions that allowed many more of them to be destroyed by water and dampness. Finally in 1938, one hundred and fifty years after the founding of the second Greenock sugar refinery by Robert McFie and one hundred years after the founding of the firm of Macfie & Sons, Liverpool, the remaining papers were reviewed and a story was written using the information culled from what was left of a most valuable lot of family history.

From these notes, then we are able to state with some certainty, that Robert McFie (1680) crossed from Rothesay to the main land, first settling in
West Kilbride , Ayrshire, then later moving first to Overton then on to Mauken Hill , near the Crawfurdsyke area in the Parish of Greenock , Renfrewshire, and finally to Innerkip , where he settled his family near the Waulk Mill. What the notes do not provide us with however, is any reason for this moving about. Looking at the the older maps of the area, we see that there were water works in both areas, and from the topicalgraphic maps, the area seems to be relatively lush farmland. Perhaps the area around West Kilbride provided little opportunity for young Robert, who as a seafaring man would no doubt be looking for a chance to better his position. The Overton location would have been reached by travelling up the road from Largs to Greenock, a distance of perhaps a days traveling at that time. Once in the Overton area, we can imagine Robert leasing a house, or cottage as it would be, along with a tract of land on which he could farm. Can we believe that there was a greater opportunity, or a large farm to be had at the Maulkin Hill, and Robert decided that he should try his hand in some thing larger. Was he disappointed with the prospect in Overton, and decided to try elsewhere.

William in his notes does not provide any details that could allow us to create a time table. The earliest information that William provides is that his grandfather William (1710) lived at the Waulk Mill Innerkip, and when his son Robert was born he rented a small farm at Daff. The Robert to whom William refers was born in 1746, so we can establish an approximate date from here. At this point William goes on to state that his father's father commanded a sloop or barque belonging to Thomas Orr and traded like his father before him to the Isle of Man, Ireland and so forth. The IGI records provide several indications that a family of Thomas Orr were indeed of Inverkip.

William (1776-1854) goes further on to state that (and this is perhaps in error) - his great grandfather William resided at Mauken Hill in the Parish of Greenock, his burying ground is in the Old Church Yard

First and foremost, his great grandfather was named Robert, and he still resided at Maulkin Hill, perhaps there is an old church yard in the area that would hold a lot of answers. If not this burying ground, then perhaps William was referring to the main Greenock Cemetery off Inverkip St. , where we find John Galt, and his sister Agnes's family of Robert Andrew Macfie,and children, ( Robert Andrew being the great grandson to Robert of Maulken Hill).

There is a mention of an eldest son named William,who married Margaret Barclay of Largs, ( not far down the road from Overton) however there is no mention of any other family members.Even with this William, who is the grandfather of the John Macfie who in turn is the subject matter of the book, we are uncertain if he had been married twice and had produced a greater number of children than were recorded.

The records that were left intact and readable after their being stored and transported over several decades, allowed the author of the book on "John Macfie of Edinburgh and his family", to create a family tree to 1938, yet did not provide sufficient information to allow him to establish the fact that Robert McFie (1680) was indeed born in 1680, or that he died in 1749, or that he married a Mary Lyons, or that she was infact the mother of William Mcfie born in 1710 ( or there abouts). The author however, did record this information in his family tree and since it cannot be denied, nor be clearly established as fact, it has been accepted as the origins of the sugar Macfie family line.

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Consideration must be given to the recorded information of Dr Earle Douglas MacPhee , who stated that he had been loaned two volumes of the "Isle of Bute in the Olden Times" by the Reverend James King Hewison and had found that almost as many McFies lived on that island as there were in Colonsay. Dr Earle MacPhee also provided records of marriages and birth in the West Kilbride area, which have now that the IGI records are on the internet been confirmed , we find a Robert McFie, married to an Ann Craig in 1708 . According to the IGI records this union produced a daughter Anna born in 1721.

With other information provided to Dr Earle MacPhee, by Glenn McDuffie, such as the West Kilbride parish records,
we find a Robert McFie, his wife (unknown) and 6 children - William 1709, John 1711, Daniel 1718, Anna 1721, Katherine 1722 and Robert 1725

We then find a Robert McFie married to a Janet McNeil ,in July of 1721, which might indicate that Ann Craig may have died at child birth and Robert remarried. The union of Janet McNeill and Robert McFie according to the IGI records produced Katherine 1722, and Robert 1725 ( both noted in above family).

Nothing has been located to show a union of a Robert McFie and a Mary Lyon, let a lone showing a birth in 1709-1710 of a William McFie.

At one time in his notes William Macfie writes " my grandmother Mary Ramsay died at Innerkip in 1760 ( the mother of my grand mother was Agnes Lyon wife of ( left blank at that time and lost for all time). Perhaps this is where the confusion of the family name of Lyon comes in, instead of being applied to the Ramsay side of the family it was assumed to be married into the Mcfie side of the family.

William further wrote " My grandfather William McFie lived at the Waulk Mill, Innerkip, when my father was born he rented a small farm and died at Daff, he commanded a small sloop or barque belonging to Thomas Orr and traded to the Isle of Man, Ireland and & etc. My great grandfather William McFie resided at Mauken Hill in the Parish of Greenock, his burying ground is in the Old Church yard ."
( Here exception must be taken with William's notes because his father was named Robert, his grandfather was named William, and his great grandfather who died in 1749 and who is buried in the old Church yard is named not William but ROBERT, so even in 1848 when William (1776-1854) wrote his memories some of the information stated is at times unreliable)

William Macfie writes also in a postscript " William Macfie, my uncle, an elder brother of my father, built the house at Bridge end, Innerkip and resided long there, carrying on the business of joiner and wheelwright."

 

 


 

McFie family tree according to the information provided in Lady McLure 's register


Robert McFie
1680-1749

Married
UNKNOWN
Mary Lyons

William McFie
1710-1789


No records have been located to confirm a marriage between a Robert McFie and a Mary Lyons
No records have been located to confirm a birth of Robert McFie in 1680
No records have been located to confirm the death of Mary Lyons
No records have been located to confirm birth of William or others as a result of the union of Robert McFie and Mary Lyons

From notes written by William Macfie (1776-1854) it is stated that Robert had a small farm at the Waulk Mill, Innerkip and that his son William (grandfather to William (1776-1854)) died in 1789 at the age of 79. This permits one to assume that perhaps the birth date would be 1710, or it could be 1709 or 1711 depending on the month of death which was not provided.
Further along in his notes William writes that his grandfather died in the year 1789, aged above 80 , which complicates the dating of the birth.


William McFie
1710-1789

Married
1735

Mary Ramsay
1708-1760


William McFie
1736-1817
John McFie
1740-1740
Anna McFie
1743-
Robert McFie
1746-1827
John McFie
1748-

From notes written by William Macfie (1776-1854) it was stated that Mary Ramsay died at Innerkip, she was a daughter of Thomas Ramsay and sister of Thomas Ramsay, James Ramsay and Andrew Ramsay.

Apparently William ( 1776-1854) consulted the records at Innerkip, as he goes on to write, "extracts from the Parish register of Innerkip, William McFie, son of William McFie and Mary Ramsay at the Wake Mill, born the 15th and baptized on the 21st November 1736.

Anna , daughter of William McFie and Mary Ramsay at the Wake Mill ,born n the 1st and baptized on the 3rd April 1743. Robert, son of William McFie and Mary Ramsay born on the 11th baptized on the 15th February 1746, John , son of William McFiee and Mary Ramsay, at the Wake Mill born on the 22nd and baptized on the same day 22 May 1748."

What William did not note was a birth to William McFie and Mary Ramsay of a first John McFie on the 27 of April 1740, and since there was a second John baptized from this union, it can be assumed that the first John died either at birth or at least before 1748 The difficulties arise from the fact that nothing was mentioned of the families or family members who did not become involved in the sugar operations in Greenock.

While it has been possible to proceed further down the line of William (1736-1817 ), it cannot be said the same for John 1740, Anna 1743 nor John 1748.


It is to be noted that mention of a second marriage to one Isabella Rae, would have taken place, yet no record has been located to confirm this . It is also noted that mention of further offspring from this union may have occurred, but again nothing was written by William (1776-1854) to elaborate on these statements.




McFie family origins possible according to IGI records


1st marriage
Robert McFie
1680-1749

Married
January 30 1708
West Kilbride, Ayrshire

Anna Craig
-1721


William McFie
1709-1789
John McFie
1711-
Daniel McFie
1718-
Anna McFie
1721-



2nd marriage
Robert McFie
1680-1749

Married
July 28, 1721
West Kilbride, Ayrshire

Janet McNeil
-


Katherine McFie
1722-
Robert McFie
1725-



This information would more or less correspond with the records of Dr Earle MacPhee

The only difficulty accepting the IGI version as that of the sugar Macfie origins is the fact that the names of Katherine and Daniel do not appear to have been carried on down the line as was done for decades in the Scottish naming process. We have William, Robert , John, Janet, and Anna, which repeat themselves throughout the family records, the first born male carrying the name of the father, the next male that of the grandfather etc. It could be surmised however that the William of 1710-1789, in naming his children in the Scottish fashion of the times, ran out of children, that is to say had less children born to his unions than was the case for the majority of the Scottish families.

In producing only five children, William was able to name his first born male after himself, his second born male after John his brother ( which throws the naming scheme of things to the wind), his first born female child named for his mother Anna (Craig) and not Mary Lyon, his third son named for William's father Robert and then again the next male renamed John ( presumably the first son John died at birth or at least before the second birth) after William's brother.

William not producing any more children was not then able to pass down the name of Katherine nor that of Daniel and the next generation at the time not knowing of the existence of these two family members, or perhaps these two family members did not live long enough to be known to the next generation , the names were simply forgotten.

Then again William and his wife may have simply chosen names they preferred and named their children such, not taking into account what appeared to be a traditional way Scottish children were named.


It is most unfortunate that William Macfie (1776-1854) who took the time to delve into the origins of some of his inlaws, did not spend a bit of this effort to clearly identify the origins of his own family . Unfortunately as he began to write his story in 1848, his parents were dead, as were his grandparents, and since he did not appear to verify more of the records in the parish of Innerkip we are left with many questions some 200 years later.

With all the time and effort that William took to write it is really a shame that he did not think to spend a bit more time reviewing the records concerning his grand father's and great grandfather's origins, nor their individual family records. William was living at Langhouse, the home of his father, in Inverkip, just up from the Daff where his grandfather and siblings had been born. Inverkip , itself not being a great distance, even in those time from West Kilbride. This family of McFie, appearing to be a christian family, would have certainly chosen to have been buried with the proper and necessary blessings of the time, and surely would have required a marker of some type to be placed at the location of internment. In 1848 the ability to locate and read from these items would certainly have been far easier that it would be today some 200 years later, so it appears that some work has to be done if any interested party really wants to know the whole story of the sugar Macfie family.


From this beginning the information that has been readily available, either through

- the IGI records,

- the notes from the publication " John Macfie of Edinburgh and his family" 1938

- the extensive work done by Lady McLure in her register of 1906

- the extensive work done by the Thorburn Family Society of Sweden

- the many reports, notes , letters received by Douglas Macfie of Canada, from the family members who gave this project it's " raison d'etre " since 1981

- the generous time and effort provided by Mrs Couperwhite, Local History Librarian at the Watt Library in Greenock , who provided a precious quantity of family information

- and the general information made available on the internet by all those researches who, while not researching the sugar Macfie family in particular, provided information of the related families

has been placed in the respective family confines and made available on the various web pages that this site contains.

I hope that the efforts to publicize this information provides those of you who are interested with a good bit of pleasant reading, and provides to those of you who are not really interested, but curious , just a hint of how grand a family you are involved with.

I am constantly seeking to update the records, to make contact with family members, to place more information on the web pages. I beg of you , to lend me a hand . Instead of throwing out Auntie's old papers, notes and or correspondence perhaps we can scan it and keep it for prosperity. Pictures are worth their weight in gold when it comes to explaining situations, and again we now have the possibilities to scan and keep records for posterity.

I welcome everything and anything, no matter how insignificant you think it might be, you may be holding the key that turns the lights on every thing
. In order to make our family tree a living tree we must all become gardeners, we must furnish the tree with the necessities that it needs to survive and grow.

I count on each and every one of you and I bless you all.



What remains to be verified

Birth date of Robert McFie of Bute
Date of Marriage and location to Mary Lyon
Dates of birth and death and location of Mary Lyon
Dates of births , names of children, of union of Mary Lyon and Robert McFie
Date of birth and death and location of Anna Craig
Date of Birth and death and location of Janet McNeil
Disposition of John McFie born 1711
Disposition of Daniel McFie born 1718
Disposition of Katherine McFie born 1722
Disposition of Robert McFie born 1725
Disposition of Anna McFie born 1721
Disposition of John McFie born 1740
Disposition of Ann McFie born 1743
Disposition of John McFie born 1748

Date and place of union of Isabella Rae and William McFie (1710-1789)
Dates of births , names of children, of union of Isabella Rae and William McFie (1710-1789)

The only way that much of this information can be verified is by researching original records in Scotland, a task that I, living at present in Canada find difficult .




Saturday, 13-Dec-2014 21:18:11 MST
MasterStats.com










 

William of Bridgend, Ardgowan




William McFie
of
Bridgend, Ardgowan
Scotland






William McFie
1736-1817
Married
May 19,1764
Inverkip, Scotland
Mary Morrison
1735-xxxx
V
William Macfie
1765-xxxx
Mary Macfie
1766-xxxx
Robert Macfie
xxxx-1840

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William Macfie (1776-1854) wrote in his memorandum a postscript " William Macfie , my uncle an elder brother to my father built the house at Bridge end , Innerkip and resided long there , carrying on the business of joiner and wheelwright, and he had three children viz William , Robert (left no family, died about 1840) , Mary (died young)

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While William worked as a Joiner and Wheelright in Inverkip, his son Robert may have taken up the trade or have become a Coppersmith, in Greenock as we find several Roberts listed in 1815 in the Greenock St. guide, Robert his uncle is listed as Feurer.

1815 Greenock Street guide
1820 Greenock Street guide

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The BMD of Scotland show a Myra Macfie who's mother was a Morrison dying in 1863 at age 83 , this would provide a birth date of 1780, Mary Morrison would only be 55 at that time so there is a possibility this could be another child of this union

Both William and Mary ( Morrison) may be buried in Inverkip but are not to be found among the Langhouse Macfie stones. As the Inverkip church records were lost in a fire we shall never really know more about this branch of the family.

Notes from the book John Macfie of Edinburgh and his family


' This particular letter (written about 1808) is an important one, for after putting forward his plea on behalf of his brother Alexander, he goes on to make an appeal on the behalf of his uncle Willam Macfie, who was clearly in very low water, `` harrassed with that firebrand his wife`` with an undutiful son, and loaded with the stigma of previous ingratitude'
. ( If in this life I am permitted, I will attempt to retrive a copy of the original letter from the family archives in Glasgow and make more or less direct quotes) (20/09/2003)

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(Parents  William - Mary Morrison)



William Macfie
1765-xxxx
Married
Dec. 26, 1789
Greenock ,Scotland
Margaret Barclay
1769-1854
V

William Macfie
1792-1867
Robert Macfie
1792-1795
John Macfie
1795-1884
Joseph Macfie
1797-1864
Mary Macfie
1809-1874


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Marriage record
Birth records
Should be death record not birth record

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Notes from William Macfie (1776-1854)

William married Margaret (Barclay) of Largs, and his wife is still alive, they had children William (plumber),
Joseph (our head cooper) , Mary (now Mrs Rhind) (no mention is made of John, who is listed on the IGI records as son of William and Margaret born 1795,
nor the birth and death of the twin to William
) (either William had no recollection of this son John, or he also died young, or William (1776-1854) simply forgot,
but as William was calculating descendants it seems odd that he simply forgot)There is also the fact that one time the wife is recorded as Agnes which is the Highland equivlent of the more english Margaret

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The BMD of Scotland indicates there were more children than William had remembered and put in his notes. We must assume from the time of the letter, William born 1765, is not alive at the time , William (1776), is wrting these notes (1854)
It must be noted however the diffrent spellings of the family name may have not caught William attention.
There was a cholera epidemic in Greenock in 1832, perhaps our William (1765) persished with the thousands of others in Greenock . There has been no success in locating any grave stones or grave markers for the Mcfie - Macfie family in Greenock, even though there appears to be not only counting our line, but those other McFies-Macfies residing in Greenock in total some 100 deaths.


I have assumed rightly or wrongly that this one John, who William seems to have missed , became the cork cutter living in Greenock
and have protrayed his family as part and parcel of our line (until I find that I am wrong I will leave my page as it has been set up.)

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William worked for the customs in Greenock, his occupation , tidesman and we can see in 1815 he was living at 4 Stewart St, Greenock ,which is just off the main dock area. (Tide Waiter / Tidesman - Customs inspector who boarded ship on arrival to enforce customs regulations)



Notes from book : "John Macfie and his family"

' It is noteworthy , too that William Macfie and Joseph Macfie of the elder branch of the family gave them much assistance.'
William does mention in his writing that Joseph was a cooper working for the sugar refinery, but what he does not mention is that William worked at the Customs Office in greenock, this information was found only mentioned in the death notice of Margart Barclay.
In the 1841 census Margaret is living with her daughter; and her son-in-law James Margaret is listed as independent .
The census taker was not too exacting about what he was recording as Mary and James were married in 1839, the recorded ages are inaccurate as well Margaret would have been 72. But then in verifying some other 1841 census information this inaccuracy seems to a comon one thought out

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1841 Census Residence - Springkell St , Liklys Court ,Greenock
Surname Forename Relation Age Gender Status Occupation
Mcfie Margaret (Mrs) 60 F Independent
Mcfie Mary 25 F Independent
Gorrie Peter 20 M Engineer
Reid John 20 M Engineer
Rhind James 25 M Mason

The Greenock street guide provides information confirming a Mrs. McFie was living at 6 Springkell St. , However does not take into consideration any other's living at that address . The 1845-46 street guide shows a Mrs McFie living at 7 Chapel St, and also a James Rhind, mason at the same address.
Knowing that Greenock was contantly growing and under going changes to thier city planning it way just be that the street was renamed, or extended and became Chapel Street, while the physical house remained and the family did not move.
Then on the other hand, the house on Springkell may have been torn down forcing the family to move to Chapel Street.
One way or the other both the McFie and Rhind families were living at the same address in by 1846.

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As we can see on the above map, #4 Stewart St, #6 Springkell St. , and #7 Chapel St. were all located in the same general area of the town of Greenock
( the Macfie Sugar refinery was located at the corner of Bogle, Chapel and Hamilton Streets)

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-------------------------------------------------

Margaret Barclay Macfie moved with the Rhind family to Elgin passing away there in 1854.

1851 Census Residence - West Road , Elgin, Morayshire
Surname Forename Relation Age Gender Status Occupation
Rhind James Head 44 M M Inspector of Works
Rhind Mary Wife 42 F M Scholar
Rhind Mary Dau 8 F U Engineer
Mcfie Margaret Ma-Law 82 F W Formerly Laundress

The 1851 census indicated that Margaret's place of birth was Largs, Ayrshire, where after some research it was found there were many Barclay families.

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(Parents William & Margaret Barclay)


William Mcfie
1792-1867
Married
July 28 1817
Greenock ,Scotland
Agnes Swan
1801-1831
V
Margaret Barclay Mcfie
1818-1857
Mary Ann Macfie
1819-xxxx
William Mcfie
1821-xxxx
Marion Mcfie
1823-1889
Elizabeth Mcfie
1825-1849
Jean Mcfie
1831-xxxx

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1st Marrige
Births

2nd mariage


William is listed as a plumber in Greenock, married to Agnes Swan, he has a partner named William , whom we assume was William Reid , who from all appearances is married to Ann/Elizabeth Swan, sister of Agnes -
The firm Macfie & Co. Plumbers was located on New Brest street according to the 1831 Greenock St guide ( such listing beteween 1820 and 1830 do not aappear to have survived, so we are unable to determine if William had set up his plumbing company before this date. By 1841 however Willaim has it appears moved his residence to 1 East Stewart , just down from where his father had been and now located not far from his mother's place on Springkell St. By 1845 William had added his partner's name to the billing While the address of the business remained the same. His home address had become 2 East Stewart ( whether this meant he had moved or the number system changed remains to be seen. :

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1831 Greenock St Guide
1836 Greenock St guide
1841 Greenock St. guide
1845-46 Greenock St. guide

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_____________________________

It is believed , perhaps more assumed, that Agnes, passed away at the birth of her daughter Jean. If this is not the case then perhaps they both died in the cholera epidemic of 1832 which devasated the town of Greenock . No death records have been located for either of them since Wiliam remarried in 1834 , and Jean does not appear on the 1841 census there is very little logical assuption left to us.

It is to be noted here also in the 1841 census, recorded ages are inaccurate

1841 Census Residence - East Stewart St Greenock
Surname Forename Relation Age Gender Status Occupation
Mcfie Willaim Head 40 M Plumber
Mcfie Lilly 25 F
Mcfie Margaret 20 F
Mcfie Marion 15 F
Mcfie Elizabeth 10 F

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The 1841 Census shows William living on East Stewart St. Greenock, Parish of East Greenock; with his second wife and three daughters of his first marriage. The Lilly Macfie who is listed appears to have been born outside of the Census county . It is to be noted that the census taker was not too careful recording the birth dates as we know from our family records William was born in 1792 , which would make him 49 - unless of course the transciber of the written record to the typed record mistook the 9 for a 0. However if we do the math , none of the ages correspond with the dates of birth in the official records.

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-----------------------------

2nd marriage
William Macfie
1792-1867
Married
Sept . 21 , 1834
Greenock ,Scotland
Lillias Dunlop
1800-1901

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1851 Census Residence - #2 East Stewart St. ,Greenock
Surname Forename Relation Age Gender Status Occupation
Mcfie Willaim Head 57 M M Plumber
employing 6 men
Mcfie Lilly Wife 38 F M
Mcfie Marion Dau 26 F U

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It would apprear that William retired some time between 1851 and 1861 and moved away from Greenock as so many of the other Macfies of this family had done, taking up residence on the Island of Islay . This census report indicates Lilly was born in Craigie, Ayrshire.

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It is to be noted that Willam Macfie & Co, which we have been led to believe involved his brother in law William Reid, became Macfie & Bell at or around 1851 and continued until William retried. It does appear that the plumbing company became Bell and Co. leaving us with the impression William may have sold his interst to his partner Peter Bell.

1851-52 Greenock Directory
1853-54 Greenock Directory
Greenock Street Directory

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1861 Census Residence - Gruinart Cottage , Kilchoman, Islay
Surname Forename Relation Age Gender Status Occupation
Mcfie Willaim Head 65 M M Retired Plumber
Mcfie Lilly Wife 43 F M
Kerr Mary Brown Niece 15 F U Scholar

We are unsure whose daughter Mary Brown Kerr is , whether she is part of the Macfie family, or that of the Dunlop ( Lilly's) family
With this notice of death it brings William's year of birth back to what was recorded in the family records.

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1871 Census Residence - Gruinart Cottage , Kilchoman, Islay

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1881 Census Residence - Gruinart Cottage , Kilchoman, Islay
Surname Forename Relation Age Gender Status Occupation
Mcfie Lilly 71 F W

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Death record

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Death record

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( Parents William & Angnes Swan)

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Mary Ann Macfie
1819-xxxx
Married
Nov. 8 1840
Greenock,Scotland
John H. Robinson
1816-1849
V
Archibald Robinson
1841-xxxx
William Robinson
1842-1843
John Robinson
1845-xxxx

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It is to be noted the children were named after a Scottish fashion, first son for the husband's father, second son for the wife's father, third son after the father himself.

This marriage has been recorded twice so it seems safe to assume that it is correct, we have taken the earlier date as the day the actual marriage occured, the second simply been a second recordeding of the same. It is also believed that the initial H. in John's name stands for Holm, his mother's family name

1840 Greenock St Guide

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Not being able to corroborate too much of my information from on line sources I decided to put as much information on the Robinson family which was online, in the hope that it will round out the Macfie-Robinson situation. There is a 1841 Greenock census which indicats a child of John H Robinson, yet the mother's forename was not recorded

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While we have a definite record of a John Robinson, being born to John H. Robinson and Mary Ann Macfie we have not yet been able to confirm the birth of an Archibald who was 2 months old when the 1841 census was completed. There are records that the Watt library has placed on line, of informatiom recorded in the Greenock Telegraph of the times indicating that a son William Robinson died in 1843 , yet we have found no information pertaining to his birth.

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Death record

Birth record

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John H Robinson died before the 1851 census was taken leaving very little information about his family. Whether or not Mary Ann Macfie dies before him or not is an unknown. neither Archibald not John have been located on census reports for 1841. We have located one census record with an Ann Robinson , widow, and John who appears to be a blacksmith's apprentice, however the ages are incorrect as is the place of birth so we have disregarded it , leaving us without being able to trace this family any further.

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On-line records show the Robinson-Holm union produced at least from 1814 in Greenock. In reviewing the 1815-1816 Greenock Street Guide there was a listing found for a Farrier by the name of Archibald, however the last name was typed into the record book as Robertson. Could it have been a typing error, or a miss reading of the written family name of Robinson , this is quite possible. As the street directory are not accessible for the years , the 1820 records list the same family as being Farriers. The records from that time until 1840 are also un accesible, but in 1840 , Archibald is still listed as Farrier but the family name has been typed in as Robinson . Given the situation we have assumed Robertson and Robinson Archibald , Fairrer by trade is one in the same.

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It is belived that Mary Ann McFie , daughter of William McFie, plumber of Greenock, married into this family of smiths or farriers, who labeled themselves as veterinary surgeons -

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The Robinson family of Greenock - Smiths- Farriers- Veterinary Surgeons -

Births
Marriages
Deaths

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1816 Greenock St Guide
1820 Greenock St Guide
1831-32 Greenock St Guide
1836 Greenock St Guide St Guide
1840 Greenock St Guide
1845 Greenock St Guide

It is to be noted the person or person working on the Greenock street guide have identidied Robertson as Robinson or vice vera, no doubt misinterperting the pronounciation of the family members name with whomever they spoke.

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1841 Greenock census

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1845-46 Greenock St Guide
1847-48 Greenock St Guide
1848-49 Greenock St Guide

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1851 Greenock census

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1851-52 Greenock St Guide
1853-54 Greenock St Guide
1854-55 Greenock St Guide
1857-58 Greenock St Guide
1858-59 Greenock St Guide
Advertisement

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Prior to the nineteenth century, farriers headed the hierarchy. Represented by the Company of Farriers, they were usually literate, learned their craft through apprenticeship (as did surgeons), and earned a similar income to apothecaries. The title “veterinary surgeon” was first adopted by the founders of the RVC to distinguish its new class of scientifically trained diploma holders from farriers. However, many individuals who called themselves vets did not possess a formal qualification.. It seems likely that they adopted the title “veterinary surgeon” in the belief that it conferred a market advantage . Many made the transition from smith ot farrier, or used both titles.

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As a point of interest this article provides an indepth history of Veterinary Surgeons from the beginning

Veterinary Surgeon

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( Parents William & Agnes Swan)
William Macfie
1821-18xx
Married
Dec 22 1843
Govan ,Scotland
Catherine Macfarlane
xxxx-xxxx

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There is some information that would lead one to believe from this union there may have been a William who died at birth in 1848, then there may have been an Angus who may have died at birth in 1849, as there is nothing to colobrate this information ,this line will be left until such time as more evidence is uncovered




( Parents Willaim & Margaret Barclay)


It has been assumed that John McFie (Macfie) involved in the cutting and manufacturing of cork
in the town of Greenock does indeed belong to our family, for he appears to be situated in similar adresses in the town as were my relatives

John Macfie
1795-1884
Married
Dec 24 1824
Greenock,Scotland
Margaret McCallum
xxxx-1853
V
Mary Macfie
1826-1828
Mary Rayside Macfie
1828-1877
Margaret Macfie
1834-xxxx
Janet Macfie
1836-1912


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Marriage
Births

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1841 Greenock St. guide

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Ann and William Streets early Greenock

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1851-52 Greenock St. guide

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As the 1861- 1871 and 1881 census records for Greenock appear to be non existant we are using the Greenock Postal listing for those periods to enhance our understanding of John Mcfie,(or in some cases Macfie) who from his early situation of cork-cutter, became a cork manufaturer with works on Shaw St, while it would appear his residence remained on William St. and untill his retirement and withdrawal from the town.

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1859-60 Greenock St guide
1860-61 Greenock St guide
1861-62 Greenock St guide
1882-83 Greenock St. guide
1884-85 Greenock St. guide
1885 Rosebank

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1879-80 William St
1886 William St.

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(Parents  William & Margaret Barclay)


The story goes that Joseph was a cooper working at the sugar refinery and was removed to the the Liverpool operations when the family set up operations there.

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Joseph Macfie
1797-1864
Married
Jan. 27, 1823
Greenock,Scotland
Christian McLeod
1799-1871
V
William Macfie
1823-1889
Annabelle Macfie
1826-1878
Margaret Barclay Macfie
1829-1907
John Macfie
1833-1873
Jessie Macfie
1836-1910
Robert Macfie
1839-1870

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>
Marriage
Births

The 1841 census for Greenock has the family living at 33 East Shaw St. This may have been the first residence of Joseph and his family, as he has not been found on the earlier Greenock street directories on which the other Macfie family members are noted

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on the 1845 street directory we find Joseph mentioned as being at 19 Bogle St. This mostlikely his business adress as the Macfie sugar house for whom he coopered was located on the other side of the street . He may have been living over the shop as many tradesmen did at that time.

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With an ever increasing family Joseph had reloacted by 1851

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Christian McLeod - Macfie is found in 1861 among residents of the Greenock Lunatic Aslyum

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1863-64 Greenock St Guide
1864-65 Greenock St Guide

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From the notice of Robert's death it seems he died in Liverpool, whether her was still with the the crew of steam ship mentioned in the notice
is unsure. The Macfie sugar operations were situatuated in Liverpool at this time so it might be he had left the sea and was working like his father had done in the family
operation.( more investigation is required)

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It would appear that Christian was released from the Aslyum. Was she declared cured , or did the family decide she would be better off in thier care will cetaily remain a mystery. In any case we find her living at 11 Mearns st. After she died we find a Miss Mcfie still living at the same address .

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An online record of the 1871 Greenock census was found for this family, living at 11 mearns St. Unfortunately the census takers,
or perhaps the transcribers from the written to the typed information were not too careful, or mis understood the information as they have recorded the name
Annabella as Alexander even though the person was recorded as (F). The fact that the Telegraph neswpaper published back in 1871 indicated Christina Mcleod , widow of Joseph Macfie died at 11 mearns St
it seems the information might a bit more accurate as it was written at time of the event.

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John was second engineer on the SS Durham Castle which went missing after sailing from Holyhead for Suez on the 15th January 1873. He was assumed to be lost at sea.

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(Parentst Joseph & Christian McLeod)

William Macfie
1823-1889
Married
Dec. 29 1854
Saddell & Skipness ,Scotland
Mary McCallum
1831-1901
V
William Macfie
1853-1859
Joseph Macfie
1855-1890
Margaret Thompson Macfie
1857-1910
John Macfie
1859-xxxx

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>
Marriage records
Birth records
Death records

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The marriage was recorded in two different Parishes, which happened from time to time in that period, this only allows us to confirm we have the correct couple
It is to be noted in the more northern part of the country McFie was spelt Macphee , the more common spelling of our family name (associated perhaps a bit closer to the Highlaner aspect of things)
The registration of the death of the child of 6 years, at one time not named and the other showing the name of William has permitted us to determine a birth date
eventhough we have been unable to locate the birth registration

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On the 1841 Greenock census William was listed at age 26, unmarried with the occupation of aperntice cooper ,following no doubt in his father's footsteps.
Three years later however we find him married with it seems one child. Unfortunately the next time we locate William, an other three years later is on the 1857-58 Greenock Postal directory listing.
He is found living at 14 Bruce St. in Greenock, a short little street between Inverkip Road and Roxburough st.
There were not many houses on the street itself at that time and William is listed at civic number 14. The changes in William's
life not only involved family, but he is now listed as a weighter.
(For some reason he has given up the occupation of cooper which may have been the closing of the Macfie sugar operation in Greenock )
The uncorrobrated date of birth for his first child may have played a role in William leaving his father's cooperage business and taking up a position in His Majesty's Customs, an occupation that was his grandfather's)

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Place 1861 Census when located

William remained on Bruce street where we find in 1860-61 his occupation is that of "Locker". From 1860 to 1875 the Greenock Postal directoy has
William living at 16 Bruce, 18 Bruce and finally 20 Bruce street. Whether or not it was the same location as his first residence, with just he civic numbers changing
as house built up on Bruce street, or if in fact William moved his family from time to time is not known, but in any case the family lived on Bruce St for a good 15 years.

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14 Bruce St 16 Bruce St. 18 Bruce St. 20 Bruce St.

The maps below provide a fair idea of how Bruce street developed, in the ever growing port town of Greenock.
Unfortuantley the area around this part of Bruce st must have been severaly damaged during the Greman Blitz bombing in WWII as there are no house pictures that can be googled
so that we can see just what the houses were like. Most of them contained several lodgings, in which from 4 to 6 familes resided.

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1871 Greenock census

William, after living some 15 years on Bruce St, moved once again. He is listed in the Greenock Postal directory for 1875-76 , still with the occupation
of "Locker" having taken up residence at 12 South St. where he remained for the next five years. William is by then listed as being with H. M .Customs which appears to be the name of the employer rather than the designation of his function, so whether or not William was still "Locker" or had moved up the department remains unknown.

1875-76 St Guide 12 South St Greenock 1879-80 St Guide

1881 Greenock census

Records show William and Mary living with thier children Joseph and Margaret in 1881. where they remained until 1884.
We next find William residing at 18 Mearns St,. The following year 18 became 16 , or William moved once again, but then he remained at 16 Mearns street until his death in 1889,
while he was at his son's residence in Port Glasgow during the Festive Christmas season.


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18 Mearns St

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In 1882 it seems that Margaret left to be on her own as the Postal listing shows her at 22 Brisbane street,
where she seems to have remained for a few years. Margaret does not appear in the Postal listings again until 1890-91, after the death of her brother Joseph
who was living in Port Glasgow, where we assume she was perhaps residing along with her mother (unfortunately there does not seems to be a Postal
listing for Port Glasgow for that period of time)

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1881 census has Joseph living with his parents at 66 Roxburgh, his occupation is shipbuider's clerk
(his will was probated in 1891)

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There is a Miss Mcfie located at 8 South street at first, then the next year's publication shows a Mrs Mary Mcfie at 24 South St also.
The following year only Mrs William Mcfie is listed . We have assumed Margaret then moved in with her aging mother.

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The mother and daughter moved once again as we find Mrs William McFie at 17 Brisbane on the 1894-95 postal Listing.
Mrs William McFie passed away in 1901 while residing at 17 Brisbane and the following year we see only Miss Margaret McFie listed.
Margaret appears on in the Postal directory at this address until her own death in 1910.

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#8 South St.
# 24 South St

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17 Brisbane St

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With Margaret's death this line of the family was extinguished.

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Have not been able to trace John as there are many listed on the various genealogy sites, but with no definite brith date to be able to match him to a female counter part. So until some party provides a bit more conclusive information I have left him as is

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( Parents Joseph & Christian McLeod)

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Jessie Macfie
1836-1910
Married
Sept.26 1865
Greenock ,Scotland
Thomas Hudson
xxxx-xxxx
V
Joseph Thomas Macfie Hudson
1866-1866
John Bryce Husdon
1868-xxxx
JoAnn Hudson
1872-xxxx

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The only confirmed information is the death of Joseph Macfie Hudson, the two other children may or may not belong to this famiy.
The Greenock postal listing shows a Mrs D. Mcfie living at 9 Regent st., whether or not Jessie and Thomas were living with her remains the question .
We have not been able to trace a Mrs D. Mcfie to any one in this line of the family, so they are not connected, or Jessie and Thomas do not belong to Joseph Mcfie's family
and this particular section of our web oage is erronous.

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We know from the death notice of Jessie Macfie, that Thomas Hudson was an engineer, who may have been a companion to her two brothers who were both engineers.
Jessie is listed a a widow, however since we have found no notice of Thomas's demise it is very difficult to establish a timeline . Jessie's brother Robert having died in 1870, and John in 1873 which was early in thier lives
causes us to believe the same of Thomas. This is further substanciated by the finding that only Mrs T Hudson appears in the Greenock Postal listings from 1870 on ward.

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The next reference we find , again in the Greenock post listing for 1870-71, there is a Mrs T Hudson at 27 Regent St.
The following year while she is still listed at 27 Regent as having shop, her home address is # 11 Mearns St, where we have already located a Mrs Macfie,
who has been shown to be Mrs Christian McLeod Mcfie, her mother.

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In the 1872-73 Postal directory we see Mrs T Hudson still at 11 Mearns, but now there is only a Miss Mcfie listed at this address. We know for a fact
that Christian Mcleod McFie past away in 1871, so have assumed that this Miss McFie could be one of Jessie's sister, either Annabella or Margart B.

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Both Jessie Hudson and we are assuming one of her sisters remained at this location until some time in 1876
infact it appears they were the only two people living in the lodging for a while, there are no other tennants listed in the directoy.

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The 1875-76 postal directory shows that both parties moved once more, taking up lodging with a group of neigbours at 16 Mearns St.
Unfortunately both 11 Mearns and 16 Mearns seesm to have been torn down, no doubt as a result of the German Blitz bombing in WWII

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1877-78 appears to be the last time we find both sisters living at 16 Mearns St in Greenock


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Jessie Hudson seems to have removed herself from Greenock for a period of time. There is one Mrs Fanny Hudson, who has a lodging house at 6 Blackhall,
and is listed in the Postal directory from 1880 to 1883, but we are uncertain this is the one in the same as "Fanny" was at the time a familiar named given to those females who were named "Euphemia ".
We do find a Jessie Hudson recorded on the 1891 census as we assume her sister Margaret. As they are recorded with the same registry number we assumed they were living at the same address
and we find Margaret living at # 4 Finnart St.. Unfortunately, it is not until 1893 that the name Hudson appears on the Postal directoy for that address and then it appears at first as Miss Hudson.
It changes to Mrs Hudson in 1906 and then both Macfie and Hudson disappear from the address of #4 Finnart st., Margaret Macfie died in 1907.




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With the death of Jessie Hudson, this family line is brought to its end.

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( Parents William & Margaret Barclay)

Mary Macfie
1809-1874
Married
Dec. 22 1839
Greenock ,Scotland
James Rhind
1807-1851
V
Mary Rhind
1842-1880

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In the 1841 Census we find this family listed in Greenock East Parish .
The group moves to 7 Chapel St, before 1845 and there we find James Rhind listed separately

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Unfortunately little has been found regarding this family. We have found them moved to Elgin by 1850, where James appears on a voters list
as a civil engineer. We have assumed perhaps he went to Greenock to inprove his skills as mason which developed into an engineering profession, differerent from most Greenock
engineers who found position on steam ships. James is listed in the Elgin Postal direction as residing at #7 West Row , where he is counted in the 1851 Scottish Census.
His wife and one child , a daughter resides with him as does his mother in law who came up from Greeonock, her husband of His Majesty's Customs having passed away before some time before 1841.
James and his wife Mary as far as we can determine had but one child Mary who was born in Greenock.

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At the time of the recording of the 1861 census, it was found Mary McFie Rhind's niece Marion McFie
( daughter of William McFie and Agness Swan) was in Elgin visiting



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Mary Rhind married a solicitor in Elgin in 1869. Her mother Mary McFie of Greenock died in 1874

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James's parents may have been Alexander Rhind and Mary Ord.

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(Parents James Rhind & Mary Macfie)

Mary Rhind
1842-1880
Married
Dec. 8 1869
Elgin ,Scotland
Hugh Stewart
1840-1914

V

James Rhind Stewart
1870-1908
Annie Stewart
1872-1903
Mary Stewart
1874-1877
Hugh Stewart
1875-1914
Lena Stewart
1877-19xx
David Stewart
1877-19xx

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Marriage record
Birth records
Death records

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Russell Fraser has posted on RootsWeb's Worldconnect more of the Stewart family

According to Mr Fraser, Hugh Stewart the father remarried in 1883. Hugh Stewart died in Canada, James R Stewart died in New Zealand,
he makes no mention of the David Stewart born in 1877 apparently twin to Lena so whether that particular record I show is correct or not remains to be seen. Mr Fraser does have the younger David
the one shown on the tombstone , this is a child from the second marriage.

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I think I have now managed to align this family properly, however if any one believes I am not correct in my assumptions please let me know so I can adjust the information on this particular family page, thank you .



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