2555198600. Hugh fitz Osborn alias de Say
1Carl Boyer 3d, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans (Santa Clarita, CA 2000), 221.
2555198601. Eustace de Say
1Carl Boyer 3d, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans (Santa Clarita, CA 2000), 221.
2555198728. William de Bardolf
1Carl Boyer, 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Robert Abell (Carl Boyer, 3rd, P.O. Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333), 13.
2555198730. Hugh de Gournay
1Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists (Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, MD, 7th Ed, 1999), line 257-31.
2555198731. Maud
1Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists (Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, MD, 7th Ed, 1999), line 257-31.
2555198732. William de Aguillon
1Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists (Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, MD, 7th Ed, 1999), line 257-29.
2Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, line 257-29.
2555198733. Joan fitz Peter
1Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists (Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, MD, 7th Ed, 1999), line 257-29.
2555198735. Sibyl Marshal Countess of Derby
1Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists (Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, MD, 7th Ed, 1999), line 257-30.
2J. Orton Buck & Timothy Field Beard, Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants (Genealogical Pub. Co, Baltimore 1978), 173.
2555199488. Robert d'Évreux
1Carl Boyer, 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Robert Abell (Carl Boyer, 3rd, P.O. Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333), 86.
2Carl Boyer, 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Robert Abell, 86.
2555199489. Daughter de Longchamp
1Carl Boyer, 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Robert Abell (Carl Boyer, 3rd, P.O. Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333), 86.
2555207824. Robert II Malet
1K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Domesday Descendants (Woodbridge: Boydell Press, 2002), 40.
2Frederick Lewis Weis, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists (Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, MD, 7th Ed, 1999), line 234A-25.
2555209568. Ernald I le Rus
1Medieval Genealogy Newsgroup.
The following 8 generation ancestor list for Alice le Rus includes the
"From: Richard Borthwick ([email protected])
Subject: re: Clere/Fay/Rus/Turnham
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format
Date: 1999/02/08
conjecture that the Fay family was a branch of the Chatellerault. '#'
indicates that the affiliation of the person so marked is conjectural.
There is more on the Turnham family which I have not yet accessed. 1 Alice LE RUS. Born 1245/1247. Died Before 28 Jan 1301. Buried in
Woodbridge Priory. Occupation Heir to Stinton, Norf; Akenham &
Whittingham, Suffolk.
Alice was heir of her father.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 440;
EYC I:481]
She married Sir Richard de BREWES, of Stinton, Norf, Before 9 Sep 1265.
2 William # LE RUS, of Stinton, Norf. Died 1253.
Farrer thinks it likely that William was younger brother of Hugh (II)
(d.1232) and his heir.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 438,
439-441; EYC I:481]
He married Agatha de CLERE.
3 Agatha de CLERE. Died Before 1250.
Agatha was heir of her parents.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 438,
439; EYC I:481]
4 Hugh (I) LE RUS, of Woodbridge & Stradbrook. Died 1230.
[HKF III:439]
6 Sir Roger (III) de CLERE, of Sinnington, Shere & Bramley. Died 1248.
Roger passed by fine to John fitz Geoffrey the manor of Shere.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356-357; EYC I:481]
He married Maud de FAY, Before 1232.
7 Maud de FAY. Died 1249.
Maud was elder sister and heir of John de Fay (d.1241). A pedigree
published in *The Genealogist* (Old Series) V:318 alleges (wrongly) that
William de Braose (d.1210) grandfather of William and Richard (husband Maud
de Fay's granddaughter and heir) was the first husband of Maud de Fay.
Maud survived her husband. His death is variously given as 1248, 1249 or
1250. Maud herself was dead by 1250 when the wardship of her granddaughter
in Maud's lands in Sinnington were granted to William le Rus.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:82, 83; HKF III:356-357; EYC I:481]
8 Ernald (III) LE RUS, of Stradbrook & Akenham. Died 1215.
[HKF III:438-439]
12 Ralph (II) de CLERE, Sinnington & Shere. Died After 1232.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356; EYC I:481]
14 Ralph de FAY, of Bramley, Surrey. Died 1223.
Bramley was restored to this Ralph after the accession of king John.
[HKF II:109, III:356-357; VCH Surrey III:4, 53, 82]
He married Beatrice de TURNEHAM.
15 Beatrice de TURNEHAM. Died Before 1246.
Beatrice was coheir of her father.
[HKF II:109, III:356-357; VCH Surrey III:4, 5, 53, 84]
16 Ernald (II) LE RUS, of Stradbrook. Died After 1166.
Ernald held Stradbrook in 1159 but not thereafter.
[HKF III:438]
24 Ralph (I) de CLERE, of Wilton, Shere & Sinnington. Died 1205.
Ralph was heir of his brother Roger (II) (d.1183/84). Roger (II) is
described as 'Roger son of Roger'. Hence Ralph was also son of Roger (I).
VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:355-356; EYC I:480]
He married Mabel.
25 Mabel.
In the Fine Roll Mabel is described as 'Mabilia Edmundi'.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356; EYC I:480]
28 Ralph # [ =? Raoul de FAYE] de FAY, of Bramley, Surrey. Died Before 1210.
Ralph the elder was granted Bramley and other fees by king Henry II.
Ralph was dispossessed for his part in the rebellion of the young Henry and
it would appear that while he did recover some lands after king Henry's
death, he did not recover Bramley. There is a conjecture that this Ralph de
Fay is to be identified with Raoul de Faye, lord of Faye-la-Vineuse, first
cousin of queen Eleanor, consort of king Henry II. The references below
give no evidence to support this conjecture. The dates given in ES for
Raoul fit what we know of Ralph's dates, but ES indicates no descendants
for Raoul.
[VCH Surrey III:53, 82; ES III/4:813]
30 Stephen de TURNEHAM, of Great Berwick, Salop. Died 1214.
Stephen was the king's mashal.
[HKFI:24, III:69, 71, 182-183, 356; VCH Surrey III:4, 84]
He married Edeline de BROC, L of Angmering.
31 Edeline de BROC, L of Angmering. Died 1221.
Eveline or Edeline was coheir of her father. Angmering, however, did not
descend to her heirs.
[HKF III:71, 182-183, 356; VCH Surrey III:4]
32 Ernald (I) LE RUS, of Stradbrook, Suff. Died Before 1159.
Ernald was granted Stradbrook, Suffolk, by Stephen count of Mortain
before the summer of 1125.
[HKF III:438]
48 Roger (I) de CLERE.
[HKF III:355]
56 Raoul de CHATELLERAULT, L of Faye. Died Before 1090.
[ES III/4:813]
He married Elisabeth de FAYE, Before 1144.
57 Elisabeth de FAYE.
[ES III/4:813]
62 Ranulf de BROC, of Angmering, Sussex. Died About 1179.
Ranulf was usher and marshal to king Henry II. He was given Angmering by
his uncle, known only as Guy. This gift was made with the consent of Nigel
de Broc and his brothers, and the gift was recorded in the Charter Roll in
7 John.
[HKF III:70-71, 356; VCH Surrey III:4]
He married Dametta.
63 Dametta.
[HKF III:70]
64 Roger LE RUS. Died Before 1125.
[HKF III:438]
112 Aimery I de CHATELLERAULT, Vc of Chatellerault. Died Before 1144 in
Noyers Abbey, France. Buried in Noyers Abbey, France.
[ES III/4:813]
He married Dangerose-Maubergeonne.
113 Dangerose-Maubergeonne.
[ES III/4:813]
114 Aimery de FAYE, L of Faye-la-Vineuse.
[ES III/4:813]
124 Oyn PURCEL.
[HKF III:70]
224 Boso II de CHATELLERAULT, Vc of Chatellerault. Died After 1090.
[ES III/4:810, 813]
He married Alienor de THOUARS, About 1075.
225 Alienor de THOUARS. Died After 1088.
[ES III/4:810, 813]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------."
2555209584. Roger I de Clere
1Medieval Genealogy Newsgroup.
The following 8 generation ancestor list for Alice le Rus includes the
"From: Richard Borthwick ([email protected])
Subject: re: Clere/Fay/Rus/Turnham
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format
Date: 1999/02/08
conjecture that the Fay family was a branch of the Chatellerault. '#'
indicates that the affiliation of the person so marked is conjectural.
There is more on the Turnham family which I have not yet accessed. 1 Alice LE RUS. Born 1245/1247. Died Before 28 Jan 1301. Buried in
Woodbridge Priory. Occupation Heir to Stinton, Norf; Akenham &
Whittingham, Suffolk.
Alice was heir of her father.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 440;
EYC I:481]
She married Sir Richard de BREWES, of Stinton, Norf, Before 9 Sep 1265.
2 William # LE RUS, of Stinton, Norf. Died 1253.
Farrer thinks it likely that William was younger brother of Hugh (II)
(d.1232) and his heir.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 438,
439-441; EYC I:481]
He married Agatha de CLERE.
3 Agatha de CLERE. Died Before 1250.
Agatha was heir of her parents.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 438,
439; EYC I:481]
4 Hugh (I) LE RUS, of Woodbridge & Stradbrook. Died 1230.
[HKF III:439]
6 Sir Roger (III) de CLERE, of Sinnington, Shere & Bramley. Died 1248.
Roger passed by fine to John fitz Geoffrey the manor of Shere.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356-357; EYC I:481]
He married Maud de FAY, Before 1232.
7 Maud de FAY. Died 1249.
Maud was elder sister and heir of John de Fay (d.1241). A pedigree
published in *The Genealogist* (Old Series) V:318 alleges (wrongly) that
William de Braose (d.1210) grandfather of William and Richard (husband Maud
de Fay's granddaughter and heir) was the first husband of Maud de Fay.
Maud survived her husband. His death is variously given as 1248, 1249 or
1250. Maud herself was dead by 1250 when the wardship of her granddaughter
in Maud's lands in Sinnington were granted to William le Rus.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:82, 83; HKF III:356-357; EYC I:481]
8 Ernald (III) LE RUS, of Stradbrook & Akenham. Died 1215.
[HKF III:438-439]
12 Ralph (II) de CLERE, Sinnington & Shere. Died After 1232.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356; EYC I:481]
14 Ralph de FAY, of Bramley, Surrey. Died 1223.
Bramley was restored to this Ralph after the accession of king John.
[HKF II:109, III:356-357; VCH Surrey III:4, 53, 82]
He married Beatrice de TURNEHAM.
15 Beatrice de TURNEHAM. Died Before 1246.
Beatrice was coheir of her father.
[HKF II:109, III:356-357; VCH Surrey III:4, 5, 53, 84]
16 Ernald (II) LE RUS, of Stradbrook. Died After 1166.
Ernald held Stradbrook in 1159 but not thereafter.
[HKF III:438]
24 Ralph (I) de CLERE, of Wilton, Shere & Sinnington. Died 1205.
Ralph was heir of his brother Roger (II) (d.1183/84). Roger (II) is
described as 'Roger son of Roger'. Hence Ralph was also son of Roger (I).
VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:355-356; EYC I:480]
He married Mabel.
25 Mabel.
In the Fine Roll Mabel is described as 'Mabilia Edmundi'.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356; EYC I:480]
28 Ralph # [ =? Raoul de FAYE] de FAY, of Bramley, Surrey. Died Before 1210.
Ralph the elder was granted Bramley and other fees by king Henry II.
Ralph was dispossessed for his part in the rebellion of the young Henry and
it would appear that while he did recover some lands after king Henry's
death, he did not recover Bramley. There is a conjecture that this Ralph de
Fay is to be identified with Raoul de Faye, lord of Faye-la-Vineuse, first
cousin of queen Eleanor, consort of king Henry II. The references below
give no evidence to support this conjecture. The dates given in ES for
Raoul fit what we know of Ralph's dates, but ES indicates no descendants
for Raoul.
[VCH Surrey III:53, 82; ES III/4:813]
30 Stephen de TURNEHAM, of Great Berwick, Salop. Died 1214.
Stephen was the king's mashal.
[HKFI:24, III:69, 71, 182-183, 356; VCH Surrey III:4, 84]
He married Edeline de BROC, L of Angmering.
31 Edeline de BROC, L of Angmering. Died 1221.
Eveline or Edeline was coheir of her father. Angmering, however, did not
descend to her heirs.
[HKF III:71, 182-183, 356; VCH Surrey III:4]
32 Ernald (I) LE RUS, of Stradbrook, Suff. Died Before 1159.
Ernald was granted Stradbrook, Suffolk, by Stephen count of Mortain
before the summer of 1125.
[HKF III:438]
48 Roger (I) de CLERE.
[HKF III:355]
56 Raoul de CHATELLERAULT, L of Faye. Died Before 1090.
[ES III/4:813]
He married Elisabeth de FAYE, Before 1144.
57 Elisabeth de FAYE.
[ES III/4:813]
62 Ranulf de BROC, of Angmering, Sussex. Died About 1179.
Ranulf was usher and marshal to king Henry II. He was given Angmering by
his uncle, known only as Guy. This gift was made with the consent of Nigel
de Broc and his brothers, and the gift was recorded in the Charter Roll in
7 John.
[HKF III:70-71, 356; VCH Surrey III:4]
He married Dametta.
63 Dametta.
[HKF III:70]
64 Roger LE RUS. Died Before 1125.
[HKF III:438]
112 Aimery I de CHATELLERAULT, Vc of Chatellerault. Died Before 1144 in
Noyers Abbey, France. Buried in Noyers Abbey, France.
[ES III/4:813]
He married Dangerose-Maubergeonne.
113 Dangerose-Maubergeonne.
[ES III/4:813]
114 Aimery de FAYE, L of Faye-la-Vineuse.
[ES III/4:813]
124 Oyn PURCEL.
[HKF III:70]
224 Boso II de CHATELLERAULT, Vc of Chatellerault. Died After 1090.
[ES III/4:810, 813]
He married Alienor de THOUARS, About 1075.
225 Alienor de THOUARS. Died After 1088.
[ES III/4:810, 813]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------."
2555209592. Raoul de Châtellérhault
1Medieval Genealogy Newsgroup.
The following line of descent as outlined by Richard Borthwick is the one
"From: Rosie Bevan ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Raoul de Faye->Ralph de Fay?
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2001-11-25 13:14:37 PST
Just a note of warning about the pedigree. Maud de Fay did not marry William
de Braose. This is a mistake which has been discussed on SGM and can be
found in the archives.
current accepted although I think chronologically there should be another
Ralph in between Ralph Seigneur de Faye who was born about 1100-1110 and the
Ralph who died in 1222. A point which I am uncertain about is whether
Stephen de Turnham was Seneschal of Anjou or Poitou. I have seen him
described as of both. 1.Aimery I de Rochefoucauld d.1151
+ Dangereuse de L'Isle-Bouchard
2.Aenor Chatellerault b.1103 d.aft 1130
+ William X Duke of Aquitaine d.1137
3.Eleanor of Aquitaine b.1121 d.1204
+ Louis VII of France (div 1152)
+ Henry II of England d.1189
2.Ralph, Seigneur de Faye la Vineuse (by right of his wife)
+ Elisabeth de Faye le Vineuse
3. Eustacia
3. Ralph de Fay d.1222
+ Beatrix de Turnham d. 1245, da. of Stephen de Turnham, (King's
Marshall & Seneschal of Anjou or Poitou) and Edeline de Broc, da and coheir
of Ranulf de Broc. She married 2nd Hugh de Neville d.1234, 3rd Hugh de
Plaiz d.1244
4.John de Fay d.s.p.1241
4. Maud de Fay 1182-1249
+ Sir Roger de Clere d.1248
5.Agatha de Clere
+ William le Rus d.1253
6.Alice le Rus (1245-1300)
+ Richard Longespee d.s.p.1261
+ Richard de Braose d.1292 2nd son of John de Braose,
Lord of Bramber and Margaret verch Lllewellyn
4.Philippa de Fay
+William de Neville Cheers Rosie."
2555209593. Elizabeth de Faye
1Medieval Genealogy Newsgroup.
The following line of descent as outlined by Richard Borthwick is the one
"From: Rosie Bevan ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Raoul de Faye->Ralph de Fay?
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2001-11-25 13:14:37 PST
Just a note of warning about the pedigree. Maud de Fay did not marry William
de Braose. This is a mistake which has been discussed on SGM and can be
found in the archives.
current accepted although I think chronologically there should be another
Ralph in between Ralph Seigneur de Faye who was born about 1100-1110 and the
Ralph who died in 1222. A point which I am uncertain about is whether
Stephen de Turnham was Seneschal of Anjou or Poitou. I have seen him
described as of both. 1.Aimery I de Rochefoucauld d.1151
+ Dangereuse de L'Isle-Bouchard
2.Aenor Chatellerault b.1103 d.aft 1130
+ William X Duke of Aquitaine d.1137
3.Eleanor of Aquitaine b.1121 d.1204
+ Louis VII of France (div 1152)
+ Henry II of England d.1189
2.Ralph, Seigneur de Faye la Vineuse (by right of his wife)
+ Elisabeth de Faye le Vineuse
3. Eustacia
3. Ralph de Fay d.1222
+ Beatrix de Turnham d. 1245, da. of Stephen de Turnham, (King's
Marshall & Seneschal of Anjou or Poitou) and Edeline de Broc, da and coheir
of Ranulf de Broc. She married 2nd Hugh de Neville d.1234, 3rd Hugh de
Plaiz d.1244
4.John de Fay d.s.p.1241
4. Maud de Fay 1182-1249
+ Sir Roger de Clere d.1248
5.Agatha de Clere
+ William le Rus d.1253
6.Alice le Rus (1245-1300)
+ Richard Longespee d.s.p.1261
+ Richard de Braose d.1292 2nd son of John de Braose,
Lord of Bramber and Margaret verch Lllewellyn
4.Philippa de Fay
+William de Neville Cheers Rosie."
2555209598. Sir Ranulf de Broc
1Medieval Genealogy Newsgroup.
The following 8 generation ancestor list for Alice le Rus includes the
"From: Richard Borthwick ([email protected])
Subject: re: Clere/Fay/Rus/Turnham
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format
Date: 1999/02/08
conjecture that the Fay family was a branch of the Chatellerault. '#'
indicates that the affiliation of the person so marked is conjectural.
There is more on the Turnham family which I have not yet accessed. 1 Alice LE RUS. Born 1245/1247. Died Before 28 Jan 1301. Buried in
Woodbridge Priory. Occupation Heir to Stinton, Norf; Akenham &
Whittingham, Suffolk.
Alice was heir of her father.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 440;
EYC I:481]
She married Sir Richard de BREWES, of Stinton, Norf, Before 9 Sep 1265.
2 William # LE RUS, of Stinton, Norf. Died 1253.
Farrer thinks it likely that William was younger brother of Hugh (II)
(d.1232) and his heir.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 438,
439-441; EYC I:481]
He married Agatha de CLERE.
3 Agatha de CLERE. Died Before 1250.
Agatha was heir of her parents.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 438,
439; EYC I:481]
4 Hugh (I) LE RUS, of Woodbridge & Stradbrook. Died 1230.
[HKF III:439]
6 Sir Roger (III) de CLERE, of Sinnington, Shere & Bramley. Died 1248.
Roger passed by fine to John fitz Geoffrey the manor of Shere.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356-357; EYC I:481]
He married Maud de FAY, Before 1232.
7 Maud de FAY. Died 1249.
Maud was elder sister and heir of John de Fay (d.1241). A pedigree
published in *The Genealogist* (Old Series) V:318 alleges (wrongly) that
William de Braose (d.1210) grandfather of William and Richard (husband Maud
de Fay's granddaughter and heir) was the first husband of Maud de Fay.
Maud survived her husband. His death is variously given as 1248, 1249 or
1250. Maud herself was dead by 1250 when the wardship of her granddaughter
in Maud's lands in Sinnington were granted to William le Rus.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:82, 83; HKF III:356-357; EYC I:481]
8 Ernald (III) LE RUS, of Stradbrook & Akenham. Died 1215.
[HKF III:438-439]
12 Ralph (II) de CLERE, Sinnington & Shere. Died After 1232.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356; EYC I:481]
14 Ralph de FAY, of Bramley, Surrey. Died 1223.
Bramley was restored to this Ralph after the accession of king John.
[HKF II:109, III:356-357; VCH Surrey III:4, 53, 82]
He married Beatrice de TURNEHAM.
15 Beatrice de TURNEHAM. Died Before 1246.
Beatrice was coheir of her father.
[HKF II:109, III:356-357; VCH Surrey III:4, 5, 53, 84]
16 Ernald (II) LE RUS, of Stradbrook. Died After 1166.
Ernald held Stradbrook in 1159 but not thereafter.
[HKF III:438]
24 Ralph (I) de CLERE, of Wilton, Shere & Sinnington. Died 1205.
Ralph was heir of his brother Roger (II) (d.1183/84). Roger (II) is
described as 'Roger son of Roger'. Hence Ralph was also son of Roger (I).
VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:355-356; EYC I:480]
He married Mabel.
25 Mabel.
In the Fine Roll Mabel is described as 'Mabilia Edmundi'.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356; EYC I:480]
28 Ralph # [ =? Raoul de FAYE] de FAY, of Bramley, Surrey. Died Before 1210.
Ralph the elder was granted Bramley and other fees by king Henry II.
Ralph was dispossessed for his part in the rebellion of the young Henry and
it would appear that while he did recover some lands after king Henry's
death, he did not recover Bramley. There is a conjecture that this Ralph de
Fay is to be identified with Raoul de Faye, lord of Faye-la-Vineuse, first
cousin of queen Eleanor, consort of king Henry II. The references below
give no evidence to support this conjecture. The dates given in ES for
Raoul fit what we know of Ralph's dates, but ES indicates no descendants
for Raoul.
[VCH Surrey III:53, 82; ES III/4:813]
30 Stephen de TURNEHAM, of Great Berwick, Salop. Died 1214.
Stephen was the king's mashal.
[HKFI:24, III:69, 71, 182-183, 356; VCH Surrey III:4, 84]
He married Edeline de BROC, L of Angmering.
31 Edeline de BROC, L of Angmering. Died 1221.
Eveline or Edeline was coheir of her father. Angmering, however, did not
descend to her heirs.
[HKF III:71, 182-183, 356; VCH Surrey III:4]
32 Ernald (I) LE RUS, of Stradbrook, Suff. Died Before 1159.
Ernald was granted Stradbrook, Suffolk, by Stephen count of Mortain
before the summer of 1125.
[HKF III:438]
48 Roger (I) de CLERE.
[HKF III:355]
56 Raoul de CHATELLERAULT, L of Faye. Died Before 1090.
[ES III/4:813]
He married Elisabeth de FAYE, Before 1144.
57 Elisabeth de FAYE.
[ES III/4:813]
62 Ranulf de BROC, of Angmering, Sussex. Died About 1179.
Ranulf was usher and marshal to king Henry II. He was given Angmering by
his uncle, known only as Guy. This gift was made with the consent of Nigel
de Broc and his brothers, and the gift was recorded in the Charter Roll in
7 John.
[HKF III:70-71, 356; VCH Surrey III:4]
He married Dametta.
63 Dametta.
[HKF III:70]
64 Roger LE RUS. Died Before 1125.
[HKF III:438]
112 Aimery I de CHATELLERAULT, Vc of Chatellerault. Died Before 1144 in
Noyers Abbey, France. Buried in Noyers Abbey, France.
[ES III/4:813]
He married Dangerose-Maubergeonne.
113 Dangerose-Maubergeonne.
[ES III/4:813]
114 Aimery de FAYE, L of Faye-la-Vineuse.
[ES III/4:813]
124 Oyn PURCEL.
[HKF III:70]
224 Boso II de CHATELLERAULT, Vc of Chatellerault. Died After 1090.
[ES III/4:810, 813]
He married Alienor de THOUARS, About 1075.
225 Alienor de THOUARS. Died After 1088.
[ES III/4:810, 813]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------."
2555209599. Damietta Goram lady of Chetton
1Medieval Genealogy Newsgroup.
The following 8 generation ancestor list for Alice le Rus includes the
"From: Richard Borthwick ([email protected])
Subject: re: Clere/Fay/Rus/Turnham
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
View: (This is the only article in this thread) | Original Format
Date: 1999/02/08
conjecture that the Fay family was a branch of the Chatellerault. '#'
indicates that the affiliation of the person so marked is conjectural.
There is more on the Turnham family which I have not yet accessed. 1 Alice LE RUS. Born 1245/1247. Died Before 28 Jan 1301. Buried in
Woodbridge Priory. Occupation Heir to Stinton, Norf; Akenham &
Whittingham, Suffolk.
Alice was heir of her father.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 440;
EYC I:481]
She married Sir Richard de BREWES, of Stinton, Norf, Before 9 Sep 1265.
2 William # LE RUS, of Stinton, Norf. Died 1253.
Farrer thinks it likely that William was younger brother of Hugh (II)
(d.1232) and his heir.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 438,
439-441; EYC I:481]
He married Agatha de CLERE.
3 Agatha de CLERE. Died Before 1250.
Agatha was heir of her parents.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:83; HKF III:357, 438,
439; EYC I:481]
4 Hugh (I) LE RUS, of Woodbridge & Stradbrook. Died 1230.
[HKF III:439]
6 Sir Roger (III) de CLERE, of Sinnington, Shere & Bramley. Died 1248.
Roger passed by fine to John fitz Geoffrey the manor of Shere.
[CP II:304; VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356-357; EYC I:481]
He married Maud de FAY, Before 1232.
7 Maud de FAY. Died 1249.
Maud was elder sister and heir of John de Fay (d.1241). A pedigree
published in *The Genealogist* (Old Series) V:318 alleges (wrongly) that
William de Braose (d.1210) grandfather of William and Richard (husband Maud
de Fay's granddaughter and heir) was the first husband of Maud de Fay.
Maud survived her husband. His death is variously given as 1248, 1249 or
1250. Maud herself was dead by 1250 when the wardship of her granddaughter
in Maud's lands in Sinnington were granted to William le Rus.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; VCH Surrey III:82, 83; HKF III:356-357; EYC I:481]
8 Ernald (III) LE RUS, of Stradbrook & Akenham. Died 1215.
[HKF III:438-439]
12 Ralph (II) de CLERE, Sinnington & Shere. Died After 1232.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356; EYC I:481]
14 Ralph de FAY, of Bramley, Surrey. Died 1223.
Bramley was restored to this Ralph after the accession of king John.
[HKF II:109, III:356-357; VCH Surrey III:4, 53, 82]
He married Beatrice de TURNEHAM.
15 Beatrice de TURNEHAM. Died Before 1246.
Beatrice was coheir of her father.
[HKF II:109, III:356-357; VCH Surrey III:4, 5, 53, 84]
16 Ernald (II) LE RUS, of Stradbrook. Died After 1166.
Ernald held Stradbrook in 1159 but not thereafter.
[HKF III:438]
24 Ralph (I) de CLERE, of Wilton, Shere & Sinnington. Died 1205.
Ralph was heir of his brother Roger (II) (d.1183/84). Roger (II) is
described as 'Roger son of Roger'. Hence Ralph was also son of Roger (I).
VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:355-356; EYC I:480]
He married Mabel.
25 Mabel.
In the Fine Roll Mabel is described as 'Mabilia Edmundi'.
[VCH Yorks (NR) II:490; HKF III:356; EYC I:480]
28 Ralph # [ =? Raoul de FAYE] de FAY, of Bramley, Surrey. Died Before 1210.
Ralph the elder was granted Bramley and other fees by king Henry II.
Ralph was dispossessed for his part in the rebellion of the young Henry and
it would appear that while he did recover some lands after king Henry's
death, he did not recover Bramley. There is a conjecture that this Ralph de
Fay is to be identified with Raoul de Faye, lord of Faye-la-Vineuse, first
cousin of queen Eleanor, consort of king Henry II. The references below
give no evidence to support this conjecture. The dates given in ES for
Raoul fit what we know of Ralph's dates, but ES indicates no descendants
for Raoul.
[VCH Surrey III:53, 82; ES III/4:813]
30 Stephen de TURNEHAM, of Great Berwick, Salop. Died 1214.
Stephen was the king's mashal.
[HKFI:24, III:69, 71, 182-183, 356; VCH Surrey III:4, 84]
He married Edeline de BROC, L of Angmering.
31 Edeline de BROC, L of Angmering. Died 1221.
Eveline or Edeline was coheir of her father. Angmering, however, did not
descend to her heirs.
[HKF III:71, 182-183, 356; VCH Surrey III:4]
32 Ernald (I) LE RUS, of Stradbrook, Suff. Died Before 1159.
Ernald was granted Stradbrook, Suffolk, by Stephen count of Mortain
before the summer of 1125.
[HKF III:438]
48 Roger (I) de CLERE.
[HKF III:355]
56 Raoul de CHATELLERAULT, L of Faye. Died Before 1090.
[ES III/4:813]
He married Elisabeth de FAYE, Before 1144.
57 Elisabeth de FAYE.
[ES III/4:813]
62 Ranulf de BROC, of Angmering, Sussex. Died About 1179.
Ranulf was usher and marshal to king Henry II. He was given Angmering by
his uncle, known only as Guy. This gift was made with the consent of Nigel
de Broc and his brothers, and the gift was recorded in the Charter Roll in
7 John.
[HKF III:70-71, 356; VCH Surrey III:4]
He married Dametta.
63 Dametta.
[HKF III:70]
64 Roger LE RUS. Died Before 1125.
[HKF III:438]
112 Aimery I de CHATELLERAULT, Vc of Chatellerault. Died Before 1144 in
Noyers Abbey, France. Buried in Noyers Abbey, France.
[ES III/4:813]
He married Dangerose-Maubergeonne.
113 Dangerose-Maubergeonne.
[ES III/4:813]
114 Aimery de FAYE, L of Faye-la-Vineuse.
[ES III/4:813]
124 Oyn PURCEL.
[HKF III:70]
224 Boso II de CHATELLERAULT, Vc of Chatellerault. Died After 1090.
[ES III/4:810, 813]
He married Alienor de THOUARS, About 1075.
225 Alienor de THOUARS. Died After 1088.
[ES III/4:810, 813]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------."2Medieval Genealogy Newsgroup.
One of the things the search for Clemence as mother of Joan has brought home
"From: Rosie Bevan ([email protected])
Subject: Clemence de Broc
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2001-11-22 00:17:11 PST
to me is actually how many Clemences there were around in the early 13th
century. One of them was Clemence de Broc, youngest daughter of the King's Usher and
Chief Marshall of the Household to Henry II, Sir Ranulph de Broc. Her
brother Robert later inherited the role as Chief Marshall for King John.
Interestingly her sister's IPM reveals that Clemence was pregnant on her
marriage to William de Malesours. This indicates that her son and heir,
Auger, was a mantle-child and as such illegitimate. He would have had to
have been granted land because he could not inherit it. However in the
following IPMs he appears to be accepted as an heir of his aunt. Clemence
went on to have three more sons. The Broc and Turnham families appear to
have been well favoured by John. Clemence's niece, Beatrix was married to
John's cousin Ralph de Fay, son of the Seneschal of Poitou for Eleanor of
Aquitaine. Clemence' brother in law, Stephen de Turnham was Seneschal of
Anjou and in 1215 the king gave 300 marks for her sister Edelina's
remarriage [H&G, v.5 p508].
<snip> 1.Sir Ranulph de Broc, Usher and Chief Marshall of the Household to Henry II
d.1187
+ bef 1166 Damietta da. of William Goram, Lady of Chetton, d bef 1204
2.Sir Robert de Broc Marshall of the King, Forester of Cannock
+Margery da. of Richard Beauchamp, had issue
2.Alicia de Broc
* +William Hareng of Sussex
2.Lucia de Broc d.s.p.
+ William Maubank
2.Sibil de Broc d.1255
+William de Arundel
2.Edelina de Broc d.1221
+Stephen de Turnham of Great Berwick, Salop.d 1214, Seneschal of Anjou
1186, Escort of Queen Berengaria 1193-4
3.Mabel de Turnham
+Hamo de Gatton
3.Beatrix de Turnham
+(1)Ralph de Fay d.1222 (first cousin once removed of King John)
* +(2)Hugh de Neville d.1234
+(3)Hugh de Playz d.1244
3.Alianor de Turnham
3.Alice de Turnham
3.Clemence de Turnham
* 2.Clemence de Broc
+William FitzAuger alias Malesoures
3.Auger de Tatlington
[Source Herald and Genealogist, v.5 p.508] <snip> Cheers Rosie."
2555211536. Geoffrey de Mandeville
1Cokayne, Complete Peerage (Sutton Publishing, 2000 ed.), 2:114 (Essex).
2555211537. Athelaise
1Cokayne, Complete Peerage (Sutton Publishing, 2000 ed.), 2:114 (Essex).
2555213904. Alan
1Carl Boyer, 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Robert Abell (Carl Boyer, 3rd, P.O. Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333), 85.
2555214466. Geoffrey Murdac
1Carl Boyer, 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Robert Abell (Carl Boyer, 3rd, P.O. Box 220333, Santa Clarita, CA 91322-0333), 176.