Husband John PAYNE
Born: Abt 1483 - Frittenden, Kent, England
Christened:
Died: Abt 1526
Buried:
Marriage:
Wife Mrs. John Payne
Born: Abt 1487 - Frittenden, Kent, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
Children
1 F Elizabeth PAYNE
Born: 1508 - Frittenden, Kent, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
2 M John PAYNE
Born: 1510 - Frittenden, Kent, England
Christened:
Died: Bef 25 Sep 1549 - Frittenden, Kent, England
Buried: Bef 1549 - Frittenden, Kent, England
Spouse: Jane COUCHMAN (1514- )
Spouse: Joyce ( - )
Spouse: Mary BEZBEECK ( - )
3 F Johane PAYNE
Born: Abt 1512 - Frittenden, Kent, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
General Notes for Child John PAYNE
Death date is from date of probate
Husband Robert WILLIAMS
Born: 1554 - West Somerton, Norfolk, England
Christened:
Died: Abt 1609 - , Norfolk, England
Buried:
Marriage:
Wife Mrs. Robert Williams
Born: Abt 1562 - Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried: 19 Sep 1625
Father: END OF INFO (Abt 1536- )
Mother: END OF INFO (Abt 1540- )
Children
1 F Bridget WILLIAMS
Born: Abt 1578 - Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
2 F Briget WILLIAMS
Born: Abt 1581 - Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
Spouse: John RUSSE ( - )
3 M Stephen WILLIAMS
Born: 1583-1593 - Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Christened:
Died: 19 Sep 1625 - Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Buried: 19 Sep 1625 - Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Spouse: Margaret COOKE (1586-1625)
Marr: 22 Sep 1605 - Gt. Nicholas Ch., Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Spouse: Margaret COOKE (Abt 1575-1625)
Marr: Abt 1593 - , Norfolk, England
General Notes for Child Stephen WILLIAMS
They were of St. Nickolas Parish, Great Yarmouth, England
Husband William FROST
Born: 1495 - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Christened:
Died: Bef 15 Sep 1549 - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Buried:
Marriage: Abt 1522 - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Wife Philippa
Born: 1508
Christened:
Died: 20 Jan 1558 - Lidgate, England
Buried:
Children
1 M John (Younger) FROST
Born: aft 1523/ Abt 1534 - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Christened:
Died: 9 Feb 1609 - Hartest, Suffolk, England
Buried:
Spouse: Anna SCOTT (SKOT) (1538-1588)
Marr: 29 Jan 1558-29 Jan 1559 - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Spouse: Ellen ( - )
Spouse: Ellen ( - )
2 M Roger FROST
Born: Bef 1523 - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Christened:
Died: - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Buried: 4 Apr 1580 - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Spouse: Agnes ( -1558)
Spouse: Katherine ( - )
Spouse: Agnes ( -1558)
Spouse: Katherine ( - )
3 M John (Older) FROST
Born: Bef 1523 - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
Spouse: Elizabeth ( - )
4 M Henry FROST
Born: After 1526 - Glemsford, Suffolk, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
5 F Audrey FROST
Born:
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
6 F Jane FROST
Born:
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
7 F Daughter FROST
Born:
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
General Notes (Husband)
His will was executed on 5 July 1549, and proven 15 Sept 1549.
William Frost appars on the Glemsford subsidy list for 1524, when he was taxed two sillings on f pounds (Suffolk Green Books, No. X .
An abstract of his will, proved at the Archdeaconry Court of Sudbury, follows
Will[ia]m Frost of Glemesford, 5 July 1549. Sick in body. To be buried in the churchyard of Glemesford. For tithes forgotten 11s. To wife Phyllip 5 pounds a year during her life; Roger "my eldest sonne" shall pay every year for 4 years this sum. To wife Phillip her dwelling in "these howss of my hed house,", including use of parlor, parlor chamber and buttery. Son Roger to keep formy wife 2 beasts during her life and firewood for 4 years. Son Roger to have profits and usage of hall lands for 4 years on condition that "he see Henry my sonne releyvd with meate drinke adn apparell at skole or to see hym sett to a good service." Son Roger to keep house in repair during 4 years. Roger to have plow, cart, 15 head fo beasts adn bullocks and 40 sheep. To "John my myddell sonne" my tenement and lands that were Strutts except one "pightell called Rawlyns", and one piece of land lying in Melfed and a piece of pasture called Rogylles pastures, to him for 4 years. To him "at his entryaunce" [apparently into possession], 2 horses, 5 head of cattle, 15 sheep. "And after thentraunce of the sayd John my middell sonne into hys tenement and Land to hym geven," he shall pay to my wife Pylip 40 shillings a year of the said 65; he also to find "hys mother" fyre wood. To "my yonger sonne John" at the age of 26 years my tenement called Rogilles with "Rogylles" pasture, "Rawlings pightell", and a meadow of an acre. "And that yonge John shall have hys ease allwayes to cararye and Dryve to hys grounds over olde Johns lands," said John to pay his brother old John rent of 10 s. a year. To son young John a bullock and 5 sheep; to son Henry when he reaches age of 26, 2 meadows at Sedmell and Newcroft. If son Roger pays 40 marks within 1 year after Henry reaches 26, then Roger "shall have yt." To son Roger "after the Dethe of his mother" 6 silver spoons. To Jonas Woode my acre of land in Melfyld that I bought of Stynte, at age of 26, or 64 which son Roger shall pay him for it. If JOnas die before he reaches 26, son Roger shall pay my 3 daughters' children the said 64. To John Wood the new house at Struts where he dwells now, for 3 years, paying for reparations 3s. 4d. yearly. To Roger Rysbye my tenement called Rogell with the yard except Rawlins, he to pay 22 d. a year of reparations for 3 years. To my 3 daughters the debts due me by Stephen Tonye and Wylliam Merchall. To daughters Awdrye and Jane each a "seme" of barley [ie, seam, which, when used as a measurement of a grain, equals 8 bushels.] To my sister Jurdon a quarter of Barley and a combe of wheat. If wife remarries she is not to have her welling or beasts kept [as above] but shall have yearly 46 to be paid to her by 2 eldest sons Roger and John, Roger to pay her 63 13s. "and John my eldest sonne" 46s. 8d. Executors: sons Roger and Henry. Wife Phyllip to have half my household stuff. To wife Phyllip 2 of my best bed[s]. Witnesses; Robert Stanshye, Giles Fyrman.
William Frost's will shows that he had more than one son named John. Olde JOhn is Myddell John. Eldest son John means the odlerof the two John's.
Roger and oldest John were the two oldest sons.
Both were atleast 26.
Henry and young John were not yet 26.
Three daughters, two of which are named; Audrey and Jane.
General Notes for Child John (Younger) FROST
Yonge John of his father's will. He was under 26 at that date, in 1549.
The fact that his first marriage took place in 1559 suggests a birth year in the mid to late 1530's. As John Frost Sr, he was buried at Hartest on 9 Feb 1609/ 10. He
Called John Frost junior on his children's baptismal records. (Distinguishes him from his older brother John Frost)
The wills of both young John Frost and Richard Scott plainly place them in the manufacture of woolen cloth, England's principal industry of the day; tehy were, more precisely, middle men who bought the wool, commissioned the shearing, spinning and weaving (all of which were done in private households), and then arranged the sale of the finished product.
In later life, probably between 1585 when his daughter Elizabeth was baptized at Glemsford, and 1588, when his first wife was buried at Hartest, younge John Frost moved some five miles to the latter parish, where he died in 1610.
His will was proved in the court of the Archeaconry of Sudbury on 9 March 1609/10;
John Frost of Hartest, co Sfufolk, Senior, 6 Feb 1609/10. To wife Ellyne all household stuff. To wife Ellin 610 out of two broadcloths now at the weavers, one in custody of John Cawston of Stansted weaver, the other in custody of one Permefy of Hartest weaver. To son John Frost one russet broadcloth, one and a half dozen twill now at the house of Thomas Hardy shearman in Glemsford. To daughter Ales, wife of John Hayward, 68 now in the hands of my son Edward Frost of Stanstead. To daughter of Elizabeth, wife of William Pratt, 50 s. owhereof Abrose Graygouse has 10s. and Bartholomewe Woolwarde has 40s. Residue of all goods, chattels, wool, yarne, "nedills,", etc., I give in manner and form following: 50s. to daughter Elizabeth, wife of William Pratt, all residue [remaining] to wife Ellin, son John Frost, & daughter Ales, wife of John Hayward. Executor: son Edward Frost.
Memorandum: Testator before confirmation of thsi will did give out of the "Surplusage of his goods" 20s. to the children of William Boram who was the son of William Boram, late of Glemsford, and 16 s. to Ann Andrewes "his now maid servant."
Witnesses: Robert Galt, Rychard Holwell, Thomas Cranshaye.
General Notes for Child Roger FROST
He appears on the 1568 subsidy list for Glemsford as taxed 5s. 4d on "64 in landes". (Suffolk Green Books, No. XII
His will, which was proved in the court of the Archdeaconry of Sudbury on 12 April 1580, is abstracted below.
Roger Frost of "Glemisford", co Suff., husbandman. 19 March 1579/80. Sick in body. To be buried "amonge my auncestors & kinred in the churcheyard of Glemisford". To wife Katheryne all the messuage where I now dwell and lands in Glemsford which I now occupyy, until son John reaches age of 21, then wife Katheryne "in recompense for her dower" and son John shall hold messuage, lands, & tememetns in common during life of Katherine. T wife Katheryne use of all my household stuff (etc) with cattel on said grounds except ten ewes to son John until he is 21, at which time household stuff and cattel to be held in common by wife Katheryn adn son John for her life. After her death, teh same wholly to John. To Thomas Gardyner of Glemsford, clothier, all my meadow in Glesford called Turpytts otherwise Partable meadow, in consideration of 658 10s. in hand, of which brotehr John Frost "the elder" shall have 624 10s. to the use of Raffe my son. Said Raffe to be placed in service; said money to be "put fourth" with him and repaid to him at age 21 "or neare therabouts". If Raffe die before 21, the money to go "in lyke maner" to my sons Edward & Henrye; if either die before 21, the whole to the survivor. To sons Edward and Henry one close of freehould land and pasture called new pasture, except a piece of meadow at north end. Wife Katheryne and son John shall have use of land until Henry reaches 21, paying yearly to Edward and Henry 20s., the said rent to be received by Thomas Gardener & my brother John Frost. To said Edward & Henry land in "Oxenfilde" on the south side of land of George Collingwood when Henry reaches 21; in the meantime to wife Katheryne and son John. To grandchild & godson Roger Mason 1/2 acre in Milfielde in Glesford on north syde of Cocks peace" at age of 21; John Mason his father and Anne his wife to have land until then. To Anne Mason a brass pot "which was her grandmother Everard", and one seam of barley. To her daughter Anne Mason 20 s. at age of 21. To my other two daughrters Katheryne and Alyce b6 13s 4d each at the age of 21, and to each 1 silver spoon. To my sister Shasfilde and my sister Ryther one combe of barley malt each. To my servants John Ryther and Priscilla Howe one seam of barley each. Residue to wife Katheryneand eldest son John Frost, who are appointed executors. Wife Katheryn to enter into bonds for 100 marks that she not recover dower and keep houses in repair until son John shall reach 21 and "in the meane season shall as muche as in hyr ys brynge upp my children excepte the said Raffe (who was to be put out to service) with convenient and cessarye meate dryinke and Apparell..." If she refuse to enter into bonds, all given to her [in will] shall be boid, and son John shall be sole executor. Supervosors, "my verye fryends" Thomas Gardner and said John frost "thelder my Brother" to receive 10 s each "for their paynes". Witnesses: Mathew Cratherd, John Strutt, Thomas Fytche & otehrs
General Notes for Child John (Older) FROST
No probate for "olde" John has been found.
Elizabeth was the mother of atleast his last 8 children.
General Notes for Child Henry FROST
Under 26 on 5 July 1549, date of his father's will.
General Notes for Child Daughter FROST
She is mentioned in her father's will, was living at that time, but is not named.
Husband Peter ADAMS
Born: 1 Mar 1622 - Kings, Weston, Som., England
Christened: 1621 - Kingweston, Somerset, England
Died: 23 Oct 1690 - Medfield, Norfolk, Massachusetts
Buried: - Medfield, Mass
Father: Henry ADAMS (1583-1646)
Mother: Edith SQUIRE (1587-1672)
Marriage: 1641-1660 - , England
Other Spouse: Rachel ADAMS ( - ) - Abt 1650
Other Spouse: Rachel NEWCOME ( - ) - 1650 - Medfield, Massachusetts
Other Spouse: Elizabeth SPARHAWK ( - ) - 7 May 1668
Wife Rachel
Born:
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
Children
Husband Henry ADAMS Lt
Born: 1609-1610 - Barton St. David, Somersetshire, England
Christened:
Died: 21 Feb 1676 - Sherborn, Middlesex, Mass.
Buried: 22 Feb 1676 - Sherbarn, Middlesex, Ma, Sherbarn Cem
Father: Henry ADAMS (1583-1646)
Mother: Edith SQUIRE (1587-1672)
Marriage:
Other Spouse: Elizabeth PAINE (1620-1676) - 17 Nov 1643 - Braintree, Norfolk, Mass.
Wife Rachel
Born:
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
Children
Husband Thomas ADAMS
Born: 25 Mar 1612 - Barton, St.David, Somerset, England
Christened: 25 Mar 1612 - Barton, St.David, Somerset, England
Died: 20 Jul 1688 - Chelmsford, Middlesex, Massachusetts, England
Buried: 20 Jul 1688 - Chelmsford, Middlesex, Ma, Chelmsford Cem
Father: Henry ADAMS (1583-1646)
Mother: Edith SQUIRE (1587-1672)
Marriage:
Other Spouse: Mary ( - ) - Abt 1642
Other Spouse: Mary BLACKMORE ( - ) - Mar 1642 - Braintree, Norfolk, Massachusetts
Wife Rachel
Born:
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
Children
General Notes (Husband)
christening from parish register.
Husband Edmund FROST
Born: 28 Aug 1593 - Hartest, Suffolk, England
Christened:
Died: Jul 1672 - Cambridge, Middlesex, England
Buried:
Father: John FROST ( - )
Mother:
Father: John FROST ( - )
Mother:
Marriage: Abt 1669
Other Spouse: Thomazine CLENCHE (1608-1653) - 16 Apr 1634 - Earls Colne, Essex, England
Other Spouse: Mary ( -Bef 1669) - 1653
Other Spouse: Reana ( -Bef 1665) - Abt 1669
Other Spouse: Mary ( -Bef 1669) - 1653
Wife Reana
Born:
Christened:
Died: Bef 3 Nov 1665
Buried:
Children
General Notes (Husband)
A "preaching elder" forced to leave England under an assumed name because he dissented from church views. Settled immediately in 1635 in Cambridge with first wife and son John. One of original members of First Congregationalist Church of Cambridge. Made elder 1636. m 1 1630 Thomazine, not Belgrave (who may have actually married Edward Frost) in Hartest, Suffolk, England. She d 6/13/1653 Sudbury MA m 2 Mary c 1653 d bef 1669 m 3 Reana c 1669 d bef 11/3/1665 m 1 Edmund Jaes bef 1640, m 2 William Andrews (-1652) c8/11/1640 3 Robert Daniel (-1655( 5/2/1654
This would give Edmund powerful Puritan connections, but I do not have on what this parentage is based. Moreover, the list of children that I have does not include alleged Frost sisters Alice, Elizabeth, OR Thomasine.
His father was allegedly John Frost, a minister persecuted by Archbishop Laud.
He was married To Thomazine Clenche by Rev. Shepherd, whose group he belonged to. SeeSee Thompson, Neil D., "The English Ancestry of Thomasine (Clench) Frost, First Wife of Edmund Frost of Cambridge, Massachusetts," in New England Historical and Genealogical Register, vol. 153 (July 1999), pp. 279, 289.
I have dates of birth Aug 28 1573 and Aug 28 1593. There appears to be an effort to make him a child of John the Younger, father of Edward Frost, Glemsford adn Hartest, but this doesn't match up.
=============================================
ate: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:50:58 EDT
From: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Subject: Edmund Frost, son James
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Edmund Frost is the first American ancestor for many of us. For you and
Darlene Frost Kneaves, this is what I've found so far. I believe Edmund:
-was born in Hartest, Suffolk County, England Aug. 28, 1593.
The following two books led me to look at Hartest and dates around 1593:
The Frost
Family in England and America with Special Reference to Edmund Frost and
Some of
His Descendants,Thomas G. Frost and Edward L. Frost (Russell Printing
Co.,
Buffalo,NY,1909) and Frost Genealogy in Five Families, Norman Seaver
Frost, (Frost
Family Assn. of America, West Newton, MA, 1926) reprinted by Higginson
Book Co.
The parish transcripts from Hartest 1556-1784, Family History Library
(FHL) film
0991936 show only one Edmund Frost born between 1556 and 1620, the one
born
Aug. 28, 1593. "Our" Edmund's birth could have been erroneously omitted,
but
I believe this is the right one.
-was the son of John Frost.
The books also point to John as Edmund's father and many trees said he
was born in
or around 1570.
The transcripts show only two John Frosts born in
Hartest between
1565 and 1575: May 30, 1568 and March 17,1572. The father of both John
Frosts
was John Frost. The second birth has "carpr." next to John the father's
name,
apparently to differentiate John the carpenter from the John who had
"sexton" in the
margins for a different child's birth. Again, this could be wrong, but I
think one of these
two Johns was Edmund's father. If Edmund was born in 1593, the earliest
his father
could have died was 1592. There was a John Frost sho died Sept.6, 1606
who was "son
of Hen.[ry] of Glemsford.
This may have given rise to the
Edmund-born-in-Glemsford,
England belief that I saw in some Frost family trees that didn't have
documentation.
Other John Frosts died Mar. 20, 1607, Feb. 2, 1609, and Feb. 9, 1609.
According to
Hartest: A Village History, ed. Clive Paine (Hartest Local History Group,
Lavenham Press
Lavenham, England, 1999) the last two are son and father, and the
father's will didn't
mention a son Edmund. This means the John Frost who died in 1607 might
have been
Edmund's father.
-was the grandson of John Frost. See information above.
-was married to Thomasine Clench whose parentage is known.
The Frost books and other sources say his wife was Thomasine Belgrave or
Clench.
Neil Thompson reported his research in "The English Ancestry of Thomasine
(Clench)
Frost, First Wife of Edmund Frost of Cambridge, Massachusetts," New
England
Historical and Genealogical Register, July 1999.
Microfilmed parish
register records
from the town of Earls Colne, Essex County, England show Reverend Thomas
Shepard
married Edmund Frost and Thomasine "Clenche" Apr. 16, 1634. This is
significant
because Edmund and Thomasine came to America with Shepard.
Thomasine was
baptized Oct.6,1608 at Bottisham, Cambridgeshire, the 7th of 8 children
of Robert Clench
and Joan Webbe. Robert was baptized at Coddenham, Suffolk County June 22,
1572 with
his twin sister Anne, and died at Witcham, Cambridgeshire before July 12,
1633 when
his will was "proved." Joan was born about 1579, the daughter of Thomas
Webbe and
Susanna Smyth, and died after June 1610 when her oldest child was
baptized. Robert
was a landowner in Bottisham and moved to Witcham, Isle of Ely after
1610. Robert was
one of 13 children of John Clench and Katherine Almott. John was
probably born in
Wethersfield, Essex around 1533, and died in Holbrook, Suffolk Aug. 18 or
19, 1607.
Katherine was born around 1534, the daughter of Thomas Almott and Bridget
of Creeting
All Saints, Suffolk. Bridget's surname was possibly Thorne. John Clench
was a judge
who, according to Thompson, was "a favorite of Queen Elizabeth I who
called him 'her
good judge.'" The judge's father, Edmund's great-grandfather, was John
clenche of
Wethersfield, Essex, whose parents are unkknown. In his will he called
himself a
husbandman, which means farmer, although he owned some land and leased
other land.
Around 1525 he married Joan Amias, daughter of John Amias, "gentleman."
I think some of the Thomasine Clench-Belgrave confusion is due to the
fact that there
was a Thomasine Frost, a descendent of John Strutt (Strut) of Glemsford,
who married
Edmund Rice and immigrated to Sudbury, MA.
-had his first son John in England in 1635.
Books and trees give various dates, but people usually had their first
child about a year
after they were married, and Edmund and Thomasine were married Apr. 16,
1634. I
didn't find a birth of a John Frost around this time in the Hartest
records, but since they
were married in Earls Colne, it may have occurred there. I haven't
ordered the Earls
Colne microfilm yet.
Re: Edmund's son James. I'm not descended from him, but the Frost Family
book says
James was Edmund and Thomasine's sixth child born 9,2,1643 old system
(Apr. 9,
1643). He "settled in Billerica and m. Rebecca Hamlet, Dec. 17, 1664;
she d. Aug. 20,
1666 and he m. Elizabeth, dau. of Thos. Foster, Jan. 22, 1666-7. His
children were
James, b. Aug. 14, 1666; Thomas, b. Oct. 18, 1667; John, b. Nov.14, 1668,
d. Mar.
3,1668-9; Samuel, b. Feb. 28, 1669-70; Elizabeth b.Nov.6,1672, m. Peter
Cornell;
Edmund b. May 14, d.May 18, 1675; Sarah b.July 15, 1678, m.--Howard;
Hannah
b.Jan.31,1680-1; Joseph, b.Mar.21,1682-3; Abigail b.Aug.23,1685,
m.Ephraim Kidder;
Benjamin, b.Mar.8,1687-8, and Mary, who m. John Walker. James the f. was
deacon of
the Billerica church and died Aug. 12, 1711, a.71; his wife Elizabeth,
survived. He was a
soldier against Weymesit Indians, Billerica garrison, 1675." The Frost
Genealogy book
takes James' line through nine generations who lived in MA, NH, and VT,
but none in
Maine (the MA towns are in what is now MA). Darlene - e-mail me your
snail mail
address if you want me to send you a photocopy of the James generations.
Hope this helps the Edmund descendants.
Robin in maryland
Discussion on Frost-l with above individual, Nov 10 and 11, 2005
I think some family histories have confused Thomasine Belgrave, who married Edmund Rice and lived in Sudbury, MA with Thomasine Clenche, who married Edmund Frost and lived in Cambridge, MA. The best source of info on Thomasine Clench Frost is probably an article by Neil Thompson, "The English Ancestry of Thomasine (Clench) Frost, First Wife of Edmund Frost of Cambridge, Massachusetts," in the July 1999 New England Historic and Genealogic Register. All dates are month,day,year and all locations England unless otherwise specified. Thompson's information is based on church records. He said Thomasine was baptized 10/6/1608 in Bottisham, Cambridgeshire, the daughter of Robert and Joan (Webbe) Clench. Robert was baptized at Coddenham, Suffolk, with his twin sister Anne and died at Witcham, Cambridgeshire before 7/12/1633 when his will was "proved." Joan was born about 1579, the daughter of Thomas and Susanna (Smyth) Webbe, and died after 6/1610 when her oldest child was baptized. Robert was a landowner in Bottisham, but moved to Witcham, Isle of Ely after 1610. Earlier parish registers don't exist, the Bishop's Transcripts are incomplete, and there is no burial record for Robert, Joan, or his second wife. Robert was the son of John Clench, "the Judge," who was probably born in Wethersfield, Essex around 1533, died in Holbrook, Suffolk Aug. 18 or 19, 1607. John married Katherine Almott around 1555. Katherine was born around 1534, the daughter of Thomas Almott and Bridget (possible surname Thorne) of Creeting All Saints, Suffolk. Thompson said Judge Clench had a "distinguished" career and "is said to have been a favorite of Queen Elizabeth I who called him 'her good judge.'" When he died he had lands in Harkstead, Grundisburgh, Clopton, Kirton, Holbrook, Great Bealings, and Bramford in Suffolk County (I couldn't find these on a map), but he didn't leave an estate record. At various times the family lived in Creeting All Saints, Crowfield in Coddenham, and Holbrook in Suffolk. John's father was John Clench of Wethersfield, Essex, parents unknown. In his will he called himself a husbandman, which means farmer, although he had "freehold" land, which means land owned free and clear, and "copyhold" land which means "a tenure of property proved by a written transcript of record in the rolls of a manorial court," according to the dictionary. Around 1525 John married Joan Amias, daughter of John Amias "gentleman." Thompson said Edmund Frost and Thomasine "Clenche" were married 4/16/1634 by Reverend Thomas Shepard in Earls Colne, Essex County. This is significant because Edmund and Thomasine came to the colonies with Shepard and the rest of his congregation. I found a birth record for an Edmund Frost in theHartest, Suffolk County parish records on 8/28/1593. His father's name was John. Family histories say Edmund's father was born in or around 1570. I found only two John Frosts born in Hartest between 1565 and 1575, one 5/30/1568 and one 3/17/1572 who had "carpr." written next to his name. The father of both John Frosts was also John Frost. Hope this helps. Robin in Maryland
Dora Smith asked why some believe Edmund Frost's father was a clergyman named John who was persecuted by Laud. Unfortunately, the two major Edmund Frost genealogies don't give any sources. When I've checked their data against original records, I found the genealogies were accurate almost all the time. However, church records, called parish registers, didn't begin in England until 1538. Edmund and Thomasine were married by Reverend Thomas Shepard and emigrated with him. Shepard's autobiography describes his persecution by Laud. I don't know if John Frost of Hartest was Edmund's father. I believe he was because the family histories say Edmund was born in Hartest and the only birth record I found in the parish records had an Edmund whose father was John. The Hartest Local History Group also believes Edmund was born to John in Hartest on 8/28/1593. Their book Hartest: A Village History includes two JohnFrosts, a tanner who died in 1661 and a weaver who died in 1644. I don't know if these are relatives. Some Frost histories give various dates for Edmund's birth, and some say he was born in Glemsford. I read parish records transcribed in 1941, when England was being bombed regularly. I'm guessing they were done to make sure a copy survived. The handwriting in the originals is the worst I've ever seen, so there could be errors. However, I only saw one Edmund Frost born in Glemsford, a twin to John born in 1564. I read transcribed Hartest records from 1556-1635 and only found one Edmund born 8/28/1593 to John. Was Robert the son of a prominent judge? The genealogist who published the article checked original records when he could, transcribed articles when he couldn't. The NEHGS has a high standard for publication, so I give their articles a lot of credibility. Was Edmund an ordained minister or a church elder? I've read the records of the town and church of Cambridge, MA (originally called the New Towne or Newtown) which say he was one of the first two church elders. The records often refer to him as Elder Frost. The town didn't have a minister from 1668-71 so church officials including Edmund were given the responsibility for "cathechizing the youth" which meant making sure they had memorized religious material printed in Q&A format. Edmund was poor, and the church occasionally gave him money food, or other items. Robin in Maryland
Husband Edmund FROST
Born: 28 Aug 1593 - Hartest, Suffolk, England
Christened:
Died: Jul 1672 - Cambridge, Middlesex, England
Buried:
Father: John FROST ( - )
Mother:
Father: John FROST ( - )
Mother:
Marriage: Abt 1669
Other Spouse: Thomazine CLENCHE (1608-1653) - 16 Apr 1634 - Earls Colne, Essex, England
Other Spouse: Mary ( -Bef 1669) - 1653
Other Spouse: Mary ( -Bef 1669) - 1653
Other Spouse: Reana ( -Bef 1665) - Abt 1669
Wife Reana
Born:
Christened:
Died: Bef 3 Nov 1665
Buried:
Children
General Notes (Husband)
A "preaching elder" forced to leave England under an assumed name because he dissented from church views. Settled immediately in 1635 in Cambridge with first wife and son John. One of original members of First Congregationalist Church of Cambridge. Made elder 1636. m 1 1630 Thomazine, not Belgrave (who may have actually married Edward Frost) in Hartest, Suffolk, England. She d 6/13/1653 Sudbury MA m 2 Mary c 1653 d bef 1669 m 3 Reana c 1669 d bef 11/3/1665 m 1 Edmund Jaes bef 1640, m 2 William Andrews (-1652) c8/11/1640 3 Robert Daniel (-1655( 5/2/1654
This would give Edmund powerful Puritan connections, but I do not have on what this parentage is based. Moreover, the list of children that I have does not include alleged Frost sisters Alice, Elizabeth, OR Thomasine.
His father was allegedly John Frost, a minister persecuted by Archbishop Laud.
He was married To Thomazine Clenche by Rev. Shepherd, whose group he belonged to. SeeSee Thompson, Neil D., "The English Ancestry of Thomasine (Clench) Frost, First Wife of Edmund Frost of Cambridge, Massachusetts," in New England Historical and Genealogical Register, vol. 153 (July 1999), pp. 279, 289.
I have dates of birth Aug 28 1573 and Aug 28 1593. There appears to be an effort to make him a child of John the Younger, father of Edward Frost, Glemsford adn Hartest, but this doesn't match up.
=============================================
ate: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:50:58 EDT
From: <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Subject: Edmund Frost, son James
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Edmund Frost is the first American ancestor for many of us. For you and
Darlene Frost Kneaves, this is what I've found so far. I believe Edmund:
-was born in Hartest, Suffolk County, England Aug. 28, 1593.
The following two books led me to look at Hartest and dates around 1593:
The Frost
Family in England and America with Special Reference to Edmund Frost and
Some of
His Descendants,Thomas G. Frost and Edward L. Frost (Russell Printing
Co.,
Buffalo,NY,1909) and Frost Genealogy in Five Families, Norman Seaver
Frost, (Frost
Family Assn. of America, West Newton, MA, 1926) reprinted by Higginson
Book Co.
The parish transcripts from Hartest 1556-1784, Family History Library
(FHL) film
0991936 show only one Edmund Frost born between 1556 and 1620, the one
born
Aug. 28, 1593. "Our" Edmund's birth could have been erroneously omitted,
but
I believe this is the right one.
-was the son of John Frost.
The books also point to John as Edmund's father and many trees said he
was born in
or around 1570.
The transcripts show only two John Frosts born in
Hartest between
1565 and 1575: May 30, 1568 and March 17,1572. The father of both John
Frosts
was John Frost. The second birth has "carpr." next to John the father's
name,
apparently to differentiate John the carpenter from the John who had
"sexton" in the
margins for a different child's birth. Again, this could be wrong, but I
think one of these
two Johns was Edmund's father. If Edmund was born in 1593, the earliest
his father
could have died was 1592. There was a John Frost sho died Sept.6, 1606
who was "son
of Hen.[ry] of Glemsford.
This may have given rise to the
Edmund-born-in-Glemsford,
England belief that I saw in some Frost family trees that didn't have
documentation.
Other John Frosts died Mar. 20, 1607, Feb. 2, 1609, and Feb. 9, 1609.
According to
Hartest: A Village History, ed. Clive Paine (Hartest Local History Group,
Lavenham Press
Lavenham, England, 1999) the last two are son and father, and the
father's will didn't
mention a son Edmund. This means the John Frost who died in 1607 might
have been
Edmund's father.
-was the grandson of John Frost. See information above.
-was married to Thomasine Clench whose parentage is known.
The Frost books and other sources say his wife was Thomasine Belgrave or
Clench.
Neil Thompson reported his research in "The English Ancestry of Thomasine
(Clench)
Frost, First Wife of Edmund Frost of Cambridge, Massachusetts," New
England
Historical and Genealogical Register, July 1999.
Microfilmed parish
register records
from the town of Earls Colne, Essex County, England show Reverend Thomas
Shepard
married Edmund Frost and Thomasine "Clenche" Apr. 16, 1634. This is
significant
because Edmund and Thomasine came to America with Shepard.
Thomasine was
baptized Oct.6,1608 at Bottisham, Cambridgeshire, the 7th of 8 children
of Robert Clench
and Joan Webbe. Robert was baptized at Coddenham, Suffolk County June 22,
1572 with
his twin sister Anne, and died at Witcham, Cambridgeshire before July 12,
1633 when
his will was "proved." Joan was born about 1579, the daughter of Thomas
Webbe and
Susanna Smyth, and died after June 1610 when her oldest child was
baptized. Robert
was a landowner in Bottisham and moved to Witcham, Isle of Ely after
1610. Robert was
one of 13 children of John Clench and Katherine Almott. John was
probably born in
Wethersfield, Essex around 1533, and died in Holbrook, Suffolk Aug. 18 or
19, 1607.
Katherine was born around 1534, the daughter of Thomas Almott and Bridget
of Creeting
All Saints, Suffolk. Bridget's surname was possibly Thorne. John Clench
was a judge
who, according to Thompson, was "a favorite of Queen Elizabeth I who
called him 'her
good judge.'" The judge's father, Edmund's great-grandfather, was John
clenche of
Wethersfield, Essex, whose parents are unkknown. In his will he called
himself a
husbandman, which means farmer, although he owned some land and leased
other land.
Around 1525 he married Joan Amias, daughter of John Amias, "gentleman."
I think some of the Thomasine Clench-Belgrave confusion is due to the
fact that there
was a Thomasine Frost, a descendent of John Strutt (Strut) of Glemsford,
who married
Edmund Rice and immigrated to Sudbury, MA.
-had his first son John in England in 1635.
Books and trees give various dates, but people usually had their first
child about a year
after they were married, and Edmund and Thomasine were married Apr. 16,
1634. I
didn't find a birth of a John Frost around this time in the Hartest
records, but since they
were married in Earls Colne, it may have occurred there. I haven't
ordered the Earls
Colne microfilm yet.
Re: Edmund's son James. I'm not descended from him, but the Frost Family
book says
James was Edmund and Thomasine's sixth child born 9,2,1643 old system
(Apr. 9,
1643). He "settled in Billerica and m. Rebecca Hamlet, Dec. 17, 1664;
she d. Aug. 20,
1666 and he m. Elizabeth, dau. of Thos. Foster, Jan. 22, 1666-7. His
children were
James, b. Aug. 14, 1666; Thomas, b. Oct. 18, 1667; John, b. Nov.14, 1668,
d. Mar.
3,1668-9; Samuel, b. Feb. 28, 1669-70; Elizabeth b.Nov.6,1672, m. Peter
Cornell;
Edmund b. May 14, d.May 18, 1675; Sarah b.July 15, 1678, m.--Howard;
Hannah
b.Jan.31,1680-1; Joseph, b.Mar.21,1682-3; Abigail b.Aug.23,1685,
m.Ephraim Kidder;
Benjamin, b.Mar.8,1687-8, and Mary, who m. John Walker. James the f. was
deacon of
the Billerica church and died Aug. 12, 1711, a.71; his wife Elizabeth,
survived. He was a
soldier against Weymesit Indians, Billerica garrison, 1675." The Frost
Genealogy book
takes James' line through nine generations who lived in MA, NH, and VT,
but none in
Maine (the MA towns are in what is now MA). Darlene - e-mail me your
snail mail
address if you want me to send you a photocopy of the James generations.
Hope this helps the Edmund descendants.
Robin in maryland
Discussion on Frost-l with above individual, Nov 10 and 11, 2005
I think some family histories have confused Thomasine Belgrave, who married Edmund Rice and lived in Sudbury, MA with Thomasine Clenche, who married Edmund Frost and lived in Cambridge, MA. The best source of info on Thomasine Clench Frost is probably an article by Neil Thompson, "The English Ancestry of Thomasine (Clench) Frost, First Wife of Edmund Frost of Cambridge, Massachusetts," in the July 1999 New England Historic and Genealogic Register. All dates are month,day,year and all locations England unless otherwise specified. Thompson's information is based on church records. He said Thomasine was baptized 10/6/1608 in Bottisham, Cambridgeshire, the daughter of Robert and Joan (Webbe) Clench. Robert was baptized at Coddenham, Suffolk, with his twin sister Anne and died at Witcham, Cambridgeshire before 7/12/1633 when his will was "proved." Joan was born about 1579, the daughter of Thomas and Susanna (Smyth) Webbe, and died after 6/1610 when her oldest child was baptized. Robert was a landowner in Bottisham, but moved to Witcham, Isle of Ely after 1610. Earlier parish registers don't exist, the Bishop's Transcripts are incomplete, and there is no burial record for Robert, Joan, or his second wife. Robert was the son of John Clench, "the Judge," who was probably born in Wethersfield, Essex around 1533, died in Holbrook, Suffolk Aug. 18 or 19, 1607. John married Katherine Almott around 1555. Katherine was born around 1534, the daughter of Thomas Almott and Bridget (possible surname Thorne) of Creeting All Saints, Suffolk. Thompson said Judge Clench had a "distinguished" career and "is said to have been a favorite of Queen Elizabeth I who called him 'her good judge.'" When he died he had lands in Harkstead, Grundisburgh, Clopton, Kirton, Holbrook, Great Bealings, and Bramford in Suffolk County (I couldn't find these on a map), but he didn't leave an estate record. At various times the family lived in Creeting All Saints, Crowfield in Coddenham, and Holbrook in Suffolk. John's father was John Clench of Wethersfield, Essex, parents unknown. In his will he called himself a husbandman, which means farmer, although he had "freehold" land, which means land owned free and clear, and "copyhold" land which means "a tenure of property proved by a written transcript of record in the rolls of a manorial court," according to the dictionary. Around 1525 John married Joan Amias, daughter of John Amias "gentleman." Thompson said Edmund Frost and Thomasine "Clenche" were married 4/16/1634 by Reverend Thomas Shepard in Earls Colne, Essex County. This is significant because Edmund and Thomasine came to the colonies with Shepard and the rest of his congregation. I found a birth record for an Edmund Frost in theHartest, Suffolk County parish records on 8/28/1593. His father's name was John. Family histories say Edmund's father was born in or around 1570. I found only two John Frosts born in Hartest between 1565 and 1575, one 5/30/1568 and one 3/17/1572 who had "carpr." written next to his name. The father of both John Frosts was also John Frost. Hope this helps. Robin in Maryland
Dora Smith asked why some believe Edmund Frost's father was a clergyman named John who was persecuted by Laud. Unfortunately, the two major Edmund Frost genealogies don't give any sources. When I've checked their data against original records, I found the genealogies were accurate almost all the time. However, church records, called parish registers, didn't begin in England until 1538. Edmund and Thomasine were married by Reverend Thomas Shepard and emigrated with him. Shepard's autobiography describes his persecution by Laud. I don't know if John Frost of Hartest was Edmund's father. I believe he was because the family histories say Edmund was born in Hartest and the only birth record I found in the parish records had an Edmund whose father was John. The Hartest Local History Group also believes Edmund was born to John in Hartest on 8/28/1593. Their book Hartest: A Village History includes two JohnFrosts, a tanner who died in 1661 and a weaver who died in 1644. I don't know if these are relatives. Some Frost histories give various dates for Edmund's birth, and some say he was born in Glemsford. I read parish records transcribed in 1941, when England was being bombed regularly. I'm guessing they were done to make sure a copy survived. The handwriting in the originals is the worst I've ever seen, so there could be errors. However, I only saw one Edmund Frost born in Glemsford, a twin to John born in 1564. I read transcribed Hartest records from 1556-1635 and only found one Edmund born 8/28/1593 to John. Was Robert the son of a prominent judge? The genealogist who published the article checked original records when he could, transcribed articles when he couldn't. The NEHGS has a high standard for publication, so I give their articles a lot of credibility. Was Edmund an ordained minister or a church elder? I've read the records of the town and church of Cambridge, MA (originally called the New Towne or Newtown) which say he was one of the first two church elders. The records often refer to him as Elder Frost. The town didn't have a minister from 1668-71 so church officials including Edmund were given the responsibility for "cathechizing the youth" which meant making sure they had memorized religious material printed in Q&A format. Edmund was poor, and the church occasionally gave him money food, or other items. Robin in Maryland
Husband Thomas KING [Jr]
Born: 1533 - Boxford, Essex, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried: 12 May 1602 - Boxford, Essex, England
Father: Thomas KING (Abt 1506- )
Mother:
Marriage: Abt 1550 - Boxted, Essex, England
Wife Rebecca
Born: 1535 - Boxford, Essex, England
Christened:
Died: 1 Jan 1605 - Boxford, Essex, England
Buried:
Children
1 F Margaret KING
Born: 1552 - Boxted, Essex, England
Christened: 21 Jan 1567 - Boxted, Essex, England
Died: 28 Jul 1585 - Hinderlay, England
Buried: 28 Jul 1585 - Hinderlay, Suffolk, England
Spouse: Thomas MORSE [REV] (1548-1596)
Marr: 26 May 1573 - Boxted, Essex, England
2 M Thomas KING [III]
Born: Abt 1552 - Boxford, Essex, England
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
Husband Walter ALLEN
Born: Abt 1601 - England
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
Marriage:
Wife Rebecca
Born:
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
Children
1 M John ALLEN
Born: Abt 1631 - Newbury, Essex, Massachusetts
Christened:
Died: 1 Dec 1711 - Newbury, Essex, Massachusetts
Buried:
Spouse: Sarah ( -1702)
Marr: 1654 - Newbury, Essex, Massachusetts
Spouse: Mary ( -1727)
2 M Daniel ALLEN
Born:
Christened:
Died: early 1705 - Sudbury, Massachusetts
Buried:
Spouse: Mary SHERMAN ( - )
3 M Joseph ALLEN
Born:
Christened:
Died: 9 Sep 1721 - Weston, Middlesex, Massachusetts
Buried:
Spouse: Anne BRAZIER ( -1720)
Marr: 11 Oct 1667
4 M Benjamin ALLEN
Born: 15 Apr 1647 - Newbury, Essex, Massachusetts
Christened:
Died: 20 Sep 1678 - Charleston, Massachusetts
Buried:
Spouse: Hannah ( - )
5 F Abigail ALLEN
Born: 1 Oct 1641 - Newbury, Essex, Massachusetts
Christened:
Died:
Buried:
General Notes (Husband)
From Walter Allen's Descendants
Walter Allen was in Newbury, Massachusetts, in 1640 and possibly before (the town was incorporated in 1635) but moved to Watertown around 1652. In 1665 he sold his estate in the latter town and bought sixty acres near the Concord boundary in what was then called WAtertown Farms, afterward the town of Weston. In 1669 he purchased 200 acres more in Watertown Farms. About 1673 he moved to Charlestown, where he died Jul 8, 1681, aged 80. He took oath in 1677 that he was 76, so he must have been born about 1601. At his death he not only owned land in Watertown and Charlestown, but in Sudbury and Haverhill. The latter farm came into his possiession in 1673 in payment of a debt due from Thomas Davis.
Walter Allen's occupation is variously given in the old records as "farmour", planter, haberdasher, shop-keeper, and once (1673) more specifically, as a "Haberdasher of Hatts". The inventory of his estate amounts ot 3015 pounds, a goodly sum for those days. When he came to Watertown he had a wife Rebecca, who died ___, and he married in Charlestown, Nov 29, 1678, Abigail Rogers.
Five children are given, all children of Rebecca. First three born probably in England, other two in Newbury.
General Notes for Child John ALLEN
Lived in Newbury, Massachusetts until 1662, when he moved to Sudbury, where he died Dec 1, 1711 probalby about 80 years old. He was a tailor, perhaps the tailor of the town,though for a few years in the latter part of his lfie he had a competitor in Enoch Cleveland, youngest son of Moses Cleveland of Woburn. John Allen also had a farm, where he lived, in the part of Sudbury now called Wayland.
Sudbury was attacked by the Indians during King Philip's War in 1676, and John Allen was one of the suffers, his loss on a petition to the General Court being estimated at 60 pounds. In 1688 he was one of those who took the public stock of ammunition into their hands, a sort of minute man. It is probable that he had a sonThomas killed in the first French and Indian War (King William's War, 1689).
General Notes for Child Daniel ALLEN
Lived all over the place. First two children b Charlestown. To Watertown, then to Lancaster in 1661 or 1662, then to WAtertown, 1670-74. He died in Sudbury, probably living with his son Elnathan. DOB based on settlement of his estate and not Savage. Sometimes confused with Dr. DAnie l Allen of Boston, who died May 7 1694. Daniel married Mary, daughter of Rev. John Sherman, third minister of Watertown, who left her a bequest in 1685, which proves that Daniel was not remarried in 1664 to Mary Wilder of Lancaster.
General Notes for Child Joseph ALLEN
A cooper . Lived in Watertown near both Concord and Sudbury.
General Notes for Child Benjamin ALLEN
Benjamin settled in Lancaster, the oldest town in Worcester County, but as Lancaster was enarly wiped out of existence by teh two attacks of King Philip's Indians in 1675 and 1676, the inhabitants had to seek shelter elsewhere. Benjamin seems to have gone to his father's in Charlestown, and died there, at age 31. It is not known what became of the children.