Edmund Lilly of NC
Cullember-Cullumber
Colember-Culumber
Lilly-Lilley-Lillie
Overview of Edmund Lilly
[II] of North Carolina
Links:
Overview
The Edmund Lilly who appears in
the
Anson County, North Carolina, records
is almost certainly a son of Edmund Lilly I of Virginia.
There is a close YDNA relationship, but he could be a nephew or
something like that. The propensity of this family to use
the same names in
every generation confuses the issue considerably. Consequently,
I refer here to the Edmund of North Carolina as Edmund Lilly [II].
He
certainly never used that designation. In the 1754 deed, he sold
land to John Lilly of Albemarle County and it was witnessed by William
Lilly. These two were sons of Edmund Lilly [I ] of Fluvanna
County, Virginia.
The Edmund Lilly in North
Carolina is believed to be a son of
Edmund Lily of Fluvanna on the basis of four facts.
1. Edmund Lilly left records in the Quaker church in 1748 and 1750 in
Louisa County, Virginia.
Lou
Poole believes that one of the problems with finding records for all of
these
Lilly families is that some of them were Quaker.
William
Wade Hinshaw, Encyclopedia of
American Quaker Genealogy. Vol. VI: (Virginia), page 286.
Edmund Lilly attended the Camp Creek Meeting in Louisa County, Virginia
for a short time.
1748, 2, 16 Edmund Lilly rq mbrp
[Requested membership] [Note: Pre 1753 Quaker Calendar, 2nd month is
April.
1750, 5, 21 Edmund Lilly dis mou
[disowned for marriage out of
unity] ]Note: pre 1753 Quaker Calendar 5th month is July. ]
This narrows down his marriage
date, even if we don't
have the actual marriage record. Lou Poole pointed out that disownment
commonly did not occur until six months or so afterwards. We are
not sure why.
2. Edmund Lilly married Sarah Dumas, daughter
of Benjamin Dumas. This is proven by the 1753 deed below.
Benjamin Dumas also left records in Louisa County, Virginia.
3. Edmund Lilly was in Anson County with his father-in-law,
Benjamin Dumas, who
first appears in the Anson County records in 1748. There are
several early records
which include references to John Lilly and William Lilly. There are
some deeds in Anson
County, North Carolina, between John Lilly of Albemarle County,
Virginia, and
Edmund Lilly [II]. One was witnessed by William
Lilly, another son of Edmund Lilly I. It may be a
coincidence, but
William Lilly
also married in Lousia County a few years later.
4. Benjamin Dumas also owned land not far from Ralph Flippens
in Cumberland County. Ralph Flippen was the brother of Ann
Flippen, the wife
of Edmund Lilly I. Thus Elizabeth Flippen, the probable grandmother of
Edmund was living close to Benjamin Dumas.
Elizabeth did not die until 1758. In 1751, Ralph
Flippen was processioning land in Cumberland County. There is a
mention of land belonging to Benjamin Dumas. We don't know
exactly where either was living, but that comment sounds like they were
not too far apart. Processioners normally did an area close to
their own home. At least both were living in Southampton Parish
in Cumberland County. See
Dumas. This is just another
connection, between Edmund Lilly I and Edmund Lilly II.
[Note Louisa
County, Virginia, was formed in 1742 from Hanover County. It is
contiguous
to the northern border of Fluvanna County. See map on Lilly-Lilly Home page. We
are not sure exactly where Benjamin Dumas lived, but it appears to have
been just at the top right corner of the third map on this page or a
little north of it. Nor do we know exactly where the Camp Creek Meeting
was. It is described in the Hinshaw book as being in the Upper
Part of Lousia County. I am curious as to why Edmund was there.]
North
Carolina Research Problems
The
family group, including
the Dumas Family, and the Edmund Lilly family and some of his
relatives, moved from Virginia to Anson County, North Carolina.
They arrived in Anson County about 1750 when it
was formed
from Bladen County.
Unfortunately, Anson County suffered a courthouse file in
1868 and
lost
a lot of its records. For a list of what survived see: http://www.usgwarchives.net/nc/statewide/records/anson.html
Benjamin Dumas purchased some land in 1748, but any earlier
records would have
been in Bladen County prior to 1750. Bladen County was formed in 1734,
but had two courthouse fires which destroyed everything that would have
applied to this area before 1750. For a list of the later records
which survived see: http://www.usgwarchives.net/nc/statewide/records/bladen.html
Montgomery
County was created from Anson County. It also suffered a
massive loss of early records during the 1835 courthouse fire. This is
still another frustrating burned county. For a list
of what still exists, see:
http://www.usgwarchives.net/nc/statewide/records/montgomery.html
Note
that there appears to
be a collection of marriage bonds from 1779 from Montgomery County.
However, there
is a book of these available and they do not appear to start that
early. The following
book is
available free on FamilySearch.org under Books. There are Lilly,
entries but only
those which occurred after
1847.
Abstracts
of Marriage
Bonds in Montgomery County, North Carolina, Copied
1965 from the originals at the NC State Department of Archives. It was
published by the local genealogical society. I cannot think
they would have omitted any early records.
Consequently, although we desperately
need more records, we have to make do with the small,
tantalizing pieces
of
data.
This means that much of what is here has hazy dates and
unsure connections. This report can only represent what we
believe
is the most likely situation as it is seen at this time.
It represents every record for these Anson and Montgomery
Counties that we have
been able to find.
Because of the sparsity
of county records, early researchers faced major problems.
Abstracts of the
records were not published for several years and paging through the
actual records was very difficult, if not impossible.
Consequently
they relied heavily on secondary sources. Unfortunately,
they relied on some of the work of Julius Whiting Lilly. He is quoted
as the source of some of the worst errors in the research in this
family. Luckily, now that the records have been published, it is
possible to get a better picture of the actual family. If you are
relying on any secondary source in book form or from the internet, you
may find your work infested with pernicious errors left over
from 100 years ago. Please read on. All of the real county
records pertaining to this family are on this site. See Edmund
Lilly Land and Court Records
Early
North Carolina Land Records
The early records of this family are
in Anson County, North Carolina whose records start in 1749.
Later records are found in Montgomery County which was formed
from Anson County in 1779.
Brent
Holcomb, Anson
County, North Carolina Deed Abstracts Volume 1: 1749-1757, 1974.
Sent to me by Nedra Brill.
[These
deeds have been recopied by a county clerk at some time into a
different book. This abstract references several books,
including Deed
Book 1, and apparently the Volume 1 of the title refers to Volume 1 of
Mr. Holcomb's abstracts. He is a very well-known Carolina
genealogist,
edits the magazine for one of the Carolina Genealogical
Societies, and has published
lots of abstracts.] I
did not copy deeds which Edmond (1758, 1753, with Sarah in 1754
& 1755), and John LILLY (in 1757) witnessed. North
Carolina law did not require a release by wife unless it was her
property before marriage, by inheritance, etc. This
appears to be the same land--the original might tell if it was 97 or
197 acres.
[abstract
page 10]
Volume
A, pp. 145-146: 20 Jan. 1756, BENJAMIN DUMAS, planter of Anson
Co., to EDMUND & SARAH LILLY of same, for £100 proc.
money...400 acres
on S side Pee Dee on N side Rockey River, opp. to ANDREW MOORMAN's
land, granted to JOHN CLARK 13 Apr 1749, sold to sd. DUMAS 10 July
1750...BENJ. DUMAS (SEAL), Wit: JEREMIAH DUMAS, ZECHARIAH SMITH,
JNO.
COLLSON, July 7, 1756.
[p.
11]
Volume
A, page 147: 26 Apr. 1756, EDMUND LILLY to BENJAMIN DUMAS, for
£100 proc. money...390 A on N side Pee Dee, adj. John LILLY's
corner,
including Buffaloe Island...granted to EDMUND LILLY 1753...EDMUND LILLY
(SEAL), SARAH LILLY (SEAL), Wit: JEREMIAH DUMAS, ZECHARIAH SMITH, BETTY
PRESTWOOD.
[p.
27]
Volume
A, page 292: 15 Jan. 1753, BENJAMIN DUMAS of Anson Co., to
EDMOND LILLY and SARAH for s5
and fatherly love to his child...350 A on
N side Great Pee Dee, beg. at corner of Buffelow Island, S side of Ye
Throwfare in Buffelow Island...BENJ. DUMAS (SEAL), Wit: THOMAS GEORGE,
JEREMIAH DUMAS, DAVID DUMAS, BENJ. DUMAS.
[If
DUMAS becomes of interest, Benjamin also gave to child David, same
date, son Jeremiah DUMAS in 1757 and perhaps others--there are MANY
Benjamin DUMAS references in index. David DUMAS born ca.
1730, died
ca. 1803, mar. Sarah: Rev. public service per DAR. David's
wife not
named in any deeds in this book.]
[p.
38]
Volume
B, pp. 499-500: 16 Oct. 1754, Edmund LILLY of Anson Co. to John
LILLEY of Albemarle Co., VA,
for s5 Va. money...land on N side Pee Dee,
upper end of Buffelow Island, 197 A, granted Edmond LILLEY
1753...EDMOND LILLY (SEAL), Wit: WILLIAM LILLY, WILLIAM
QUEEN.
[p.
57]
Volume
C-1, pp. 437: 24 Nov. 1758, JOHN LYLY of Anson Co., to BENJAM.
DUMAS of same, for £100 proc. money...land on N side Great
Pee Dee,
upper end of Buffelow Island, 97 A...conveyed from EDMOND LILLY to JOHN
LILLY 16 Oct. 1753...JOHN LILLY (SEAL), Wit: JERH. DUMAS, DAVID SNEED,
HILLER WILEDER (I).
[no
explanation given for the (I)--apparently his mark]
The following map of the
area in Anson
County where Edmund Lilly settled and where John had his land was
sent to me by Lou Poole. He marked the places on it and provides
these comments:
The
area to the west of the Pee Dee River and south of Rocky River is
present-day Anson County. (The James Marshall family lived in the
“horseshoe” or the Rocky River, just west of US 52.) The
area to the west of the Pee Dee River and north of Rocky River is
present-day Stanly County (created from Montgomery County in 1841). The
entire upper right (east of Pee Dee River) is present-day Montgomery
County. And the area in the lower right is present-day Richmond County.
When the Rev. Edmund Lilly family first arrived, they acquired land on
what was then called Buffalo Island, but which I think is now called
Buzzard Island – as shown. Later the Lilly family acquired land
on Richland Creek, which I think is now called Richmond Creek –
as shown in the map. The Lilly family cemetery location is also marked
above. The area between the Rocky River and its mouth and the Pee Dee
River is what was, and is, called “The Forks.” It was
probably the richest land in the area, probably because of periodic
overflows of the two rivers. And it was also one of the unhealthiest
areas because of periodic outbreaks of mosquito-borne diseases
(typhoid, malaria, yellow fever, etc.).
DAR/SAR
Eligibility
Edmund Lilly served as a juror
and a Commissioner during the Revolutionary War which makes his
descendants eligible for membership in the DAR and SAR. The
problem is, of course, proving that descent. As far as we know so
far, the only descendants who can prove their descent are the
descendants of Edmund Lilly III, and his three daughters with Elizabeth
Billingsley.
http://services.dar.org/public/dar_research/search_adb/?action=full&p_id=A070366
The DAR on this page summarizes
the information sent to them. Note that they erroneously have him born
in England. They also have Betsy Lilly as his daughter, but she
was not born until 1787. She is probably a granddaughter of
Edmund. DAR records refer to a correction file with unknown
contents.
Included on the list of descendants is Betsy Lilly,
who married Thomas Scarboro. I believe she is a
granddaughter of
Edmund. If a descendant of this line can identify her father, I
would like to hear from them.
Note
from June Byrne:
The Lucy Lilly
White Legend
"White Cemetery", Anson Co, NC
Family Records, Manuscript from Thomas Wade Chapter DAR, 1956,
copy
NSDAR, p 92 [The information is
on a tombstone in this cemetery, but it is a recent addition.
I don't think that there is an original stone for either of them.]
Lucy Lilly, born
21 October 1800 in Fluvanna County, Virginia, died 30 November
1869
in Anson County, North Caroline, buried in White Cemetery, 5m south
of Peachland, Anson County. The book states she is daughter of
William Lilly and Lucy Bybee of Bybee, Fluvanna County, Virginia.
Married Joseph White 4 December 1817. NO source is given for this
info. She is buried next to stone for Colonel Joseph White, where Lucy
is listed as his
wife. Their children are listed also. The stone was erected some
years after their deaths.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/white/messages/27555.html
Death notice: January 28, 1870, Southern
Christian Advocate
Lucy White, wife of Col. J. White, was born
21st October 1800, married 4th Dec 1817, and died in Anson Co., N.C.,
20th Nov 1869.
It seems to me
unlikely that Lucy Lilly White was the daughter of the
William Lilly who married Lucy Bybee. At one time, the North
Carolina researchers had thought that this William was the son of
Edmund Lilly II of North Carolina. I am told that this error
came from Julius Whiting Lilly. I think that this Lucy White
legend is linked to
that error. See Children of
Armiger Lilly senior. This William is actully in the estate
records of his father, Armiger Lilly sr.
William Lilly went to Kentucky
when he left Fluvanna County. He was in Clarke and then Estill
County, Kentucky. He did appear to have a daughter named Lucy but she
married in Kentucky in 1827. There are a few Lilly names in the
1850 census of Kentucky who were born in North Carolina. I cannot
identify them at this time. However, the big problem with this
Lucy as his daughter
is that she was born in North Carolina in 1800 and William was in
Kentucky in 1800.
Lucy may have easily been a Lilly, but there is NO evidence that
she was the daughter of William Lilly and Lucy Bybee who in fact left
Virginia for Kentucky before Lucy Lilly was supposed to have
married
Joseph White. There is no such marriage in Fluvanna County where
the records are complete. I believe that the missing marriage for
Lucy
and Joseph White was lost in the many fires of the Montgomery County
Courthouse. But this error is probably pointing
researchers the wrong way and they are not looking for evidence of
Lucy's parents in the right place which is North Carolina, not
Virginia or Kentucky. Note that Lucy was born in North Carolina
according to the both the 1850
and 1860 census record. William
Lilly and Lucy Bybee were still in Virginia in 1800, but moved to
Kentucky shortly after 1800.
1850 Dumas Shop, Anson, North Carolina; Roll: M432_619; Page: 230A;
Joseph White 54 NC; Lucy 49 NC; Ellen S. Crowder 27 NC; James Ross 26
NC; Mary S. White 13 NC.
1860 Lanesboro, Anson, North Carolina; Roll: M653_887; Page: 250;
483/443: Joseph White 64 NC, Lucy White 59 NC; Mary Faulkner 23
NC; Margarite White 20 NC; Hariet Crowder 15 NC; James Faulkner 15 NC.
I suspect
that Lucy's maiden name is on a death certificate for one of her
children.
I have been trying to locate someone who knows. If, in fact,
her maiden name was Lilly, she may have been the granddaughter
of Edmund Lilly II. I
would like to correspond with anyone who
has actually researched this line. See also John Lilly of North Carolina.
Lou Poole is a descendant of this group of Lilly's.
So much of this work is his and I am appreciative of his
generosity in sharing his research. He has researched a large
number of his families. To find them, go to the Dallas Public Library
site: http://dallaslibrary2.org/ and search for James Louis Poole as the
author and you will see his name. He is in the process of
adding a volume on the Dumas family also. His email address
is: [email protected] If you have more information on this
group in North Carolina, please get in touch with either or both of us.
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