Message
Editor's Note: The below messages have been slightly edited to correct and distinguish the differences between R1b3 (M65) and R1b4 (M73):
----- Original Message -----
From: Bennett Greenspan
To: David B. Strong
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:42 PM
Subject: FW: Special Request for Information
Hi
David
[M65 (R1b3) and/or M73 [R1b4] are not SNPs]
offered at this time by anyone that I know of...It's just to far down the
tree to be in the real limelight, yet, however it will be tested, by us,
eventually, as it is in the R1b super clade that 50% of our customers are
in...so it is worthwhile, just not at the moment.
I have
placed as much of the info on the matches you have asked about below. The
defining aspect of all these samples is that they have a 12 at DYS 393...very
uncommon for R1b, as 90+ % of R1 is found as a 13.
| Kit |
|
Name |
3
9
3 |
3
9
0 |
1
9 |
3
9
1 |
3
8
5
a |
3
8
5
b |
4
2
6 |
3
8
8 |
4
3
9 |
3
8
9
|
1 |
3
9
2 |
3
8
9
|
2 |
4
5
8 |
4
5
9
a |
4
5
9
b |
4
5
5 |
4
5
4 |
4
4
7 |
4
3
7 |
4
4
8 |
4
4
9 |
4
6
4
a |
4
6
4
b |
4
6
4
c |
4
6
4
d |
4
6
4
e |
4
6
4
f |
4
6
4
g |
4
6
0 |
G
A
T
A
H
4 |
Y
C
A
I
I
a |
Y
C
A
I
I
b |
4
5
6 |
6
0
7 |
5
7
6 |
5
7
0 |
C
D
Y
a |
C
D
Y
b |
4
4
2 |
4
3
8 |
|
|
Elliott |
12 |
24 |
14 |
12 |
11 |
15 |
12 |
12 |
12 |
13 |
13 |
30 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Siberian |
12 |
24 |
14 |
11 |
11 |
15 |
12 |
12 |
12 |
13 |
13 |
29 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Siberian |
12 |
24 |
14 |
11 |
11 |
15 |
12 |
12 |
12 |
13 |
13 |
29 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Iceland |
12 |
24 |
14 |
11 |
11 |
15 |
12 |
12 |
12 |
13 |
13 |
29 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hungary |
12 |
24 |
14 |
11 |
11 |
14 |
12 |
12 |
12 |
13 |
13 |
30 |
E-mail any time.
Best Regards,
Bennett
Greenspan
President
Family Tree
DNA
www.FamilyTreeDNA.com
"History Unearthed Daily"
Have you already added your results to
www.Ysearch.org, the FTDNA
sponsored public database? If not yet, please go to your FTDNA personal page and
on the left side you will see an explanation and a link for the
upload.
Hello
Bennett:
I am writing this
message to request some additional information from your database, relative to a
discussion I have been having with certain individuals.
Contemporaneously with this message, I have [separately forwarded] a copy of a message sent in
reply to James V. Elliott, which was also copied, inter alia, to Bonnie
Schrack. You will note, in part, mention that James
Elliott's "Y-DNA haplotype is so rare that (his) closest matches in the FTDNA
Haplogroup Database are two step mutations, namely 5 Native Siberians, 1
Icelander and 1 Hungarian", and that this coincides with information which has
been provided to me and three other members of the Strong, etc., surname DNA
Study.
As [separately] mentioned in
my message to James Elliott, we wish to obtain the haplotype marker values for
the referenced Native Siberians, the Icelander, and the Hungarian.
We do not particularly wish to know their identities at this point.
However, we are most interested in learning whether their haplotypes are
consistent with the hypotheses we are developing re the possibility that we are
all members of [...Haplotype 35], and possibly subclade M73 [R1b4] of R1b.
This may yield some interesting possible "deep roots" findings re various
Anglo-Scottish border clans and families. To this end, we would also
appreciate any help you can provide in identifying the modal average marker
values for [...Haplotype 35] as well as for subclade M73 [R1b4] of R1b.
Note particularly James
Elliott's mention that he read "the recent Cinnogli paper about R1b3 in Anatolia, and discovered that
R1b3 has been tentatively divided into two groups
- one with a modal DYS393 value of 13 (Haplotype or AMH), and the other (Haplotype) with a modal DYS393
value of 12" ; and note also Bonnie
Schrack's comment "The clade defined by the SNP M73 [R1b4] is supposed to be found in
Central Asia and/or Siberia, according to the data in Underhill et al, "Y
chromosome sequence variation and the history of human populations," from
Nature Genetics, vol 26, Nov. 2000. They found 6 R1b people
with M73 [R1b4] in Central Asia/Siberia. " The
questions arise whether we are talking about the same 6 Native Siberians, and
whether, if so, the ,
Donegal Bay Strong group,
James Elliott, and others with the particular marker pattern involved may belong
to the same subclade.
I hope
you will be able to accomodate us by providing the requested
information. Further, I would appreciate being advised whether there
is any way we could be SNP tested for the [M65 (R1b3) and/or the M73 [R1b4]] subclades of
R1b.
Regards
Dave
Strong (DNA Participant # 5811) ...
DNA Study Coordinator &
webmaster:
Book I: RESEARCHING STRONG(E) AND STRANG(E)
IN
GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/contents.htm
Database
and manuscript. See especially Chap. 13,
entitled "Lineages"; and
Chapt. 15, "DNA Study"
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/dnaresults.htm
&
Book
II: THE DONEGAL STRONG PUZZLE:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~donegalstrongs/indxdrft.htm
Research
and study of Counties Donegal and Fermanagh Strongs and
related
families.
==============================================================