Strong(e)/Strang(e) Research in Britain and Ireland

Researching Strong(e)s and Strang(e)s in Britain and Ireland

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(N: Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 11:04:18 AM)

(R:Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 11:04:26 AM)

As yet, I have not prepared a descendency chart for the Strongs of Fassaroe Townland, County Wicklow, and their relatives of County Dublin. Until then, the following messages will give some insight re the research perameters involved, and the two gif images below will give a limited view of the known descendency and relationships... although much more is presently known. One should take a look at the Irish Strong Database: County Wicklow and the separate Irish Strong Births, Marriages & Deaths Index for additional information.

11 October 2001
David B. Strong

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne 
To: Jenny Self (AU, re Wicklow, Kilkenny, Waterford Strongs) 
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 11:15 PM
Subject: Wicklow Strongs
Attachments: Wicklow1.gif and Wicklow2.gif
        fassaroe descendeny. screen
        fassaroe descendeny. screen

 Hi Jenny...
> Attached is the descendency I have for the Wicklow Strongs.   Note, I
> have additional material not included in the descendency to this
> point.   I took a look at your website.   Go ahead and add this
> material to your site if you want.  If you do add it, I would
> appreciate mention somewhere crediting me with having researched the
> material, and referring to my website.  In turn, I will link to your
> website from my "Lineages Directory".
> I mentioned the possibility/probability of tracing this family back to
> Lestrange of England.  This is LeStrange of Hunstanton, which in turn
> can be traced back to a knight who was with William the Conqueror at
> the Battle of Hastings.     When I get a chance, I will snail mail the
> material and provide you with some internet links that will help you
> on this.   If you can complete the links to Hunstanton, you will be
> providing some major assistance to me and other researchers!
> We are celebrating Canadian Thanksgiving this weekend, and next Friday
> we are traveling to North Carolina for a week.  I will try to squeeze
> you into my schedule someplace!  {:-)
> Regards,
> Dave Strong

----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Patricia Strong (CA frm NM, re Co Wicklow & Dublin) ; Julie Wells (re Strong, poss Fassaroe) ; Judith Schumer (AU re Co.Wicklow & Dublin) ; Jenny Self (AU, re Wicklow-Dublin Strongs) ; Hugh Casement (re Wicklow Strongs) ; Dell Maw (AU, re Co's Wicklow & Dublin ; Nicola Jenkin (re English Stone Mason Strongs) Cc: Martha F.B. Strong (PA, re Southwest England) Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:45 AM Subject: Fw: Researching Strong Stone Masons & County Wicklow Nicola... The following messages have been copied into this one from my "archives". They are dated seriatim from Oct 6 to Nov 9, 2000... in an attempt to give you some of the "flow" of the information. I have Bolded the info I think particularly of interest to you. Note, Jenny Self has recently moved to England from Australia.... I don't have her updated email address, but hope that her cousins Dell Maw and Julie Wells may be able to help communicate this info to her. Regards, Dave Strong ======================== ----Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Jenny Self Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Your fabulous data base - and item 2749 Hi Jenny... Very Pleased to hear from you. I am delighted to at long last have contact with someone who claims the Wicklow Strongs! I don't know if you have explored the Lineage Directory and followed any links there to discussions of this family... and frankly, without taking the time to review my prior postings on the website I don't exactly remember what I may have said there... as opposed to other material I have "in mind"! I am going to interlineate certain responses to your message below (in CAPS to set them off)... and then more below: -------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenny Self To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 7:26 AM Subject: Your fabulous data base - and item 2749 Dear David. How wonderful you have loaded so much into your Irish Strong database! Aren't you a kind person. I am particularly interested in the Wicklow records, as my great great great grandmother Beresford Strong was born in Wicklow in 1801. I believe she was the granddaughter of the Richard Strong whose marriage you have recorded as item 2749, 30 July 1784. Richard's wife had the christian name Beresford also, and I would very much like to find out her maiden name and any other information you may have recorded. By the way, the "Official" incident item 2517 you have recorded against a "Bensford Strong" I believe should read "Beresford Strong". ACTUALLY, THE RECORD READS BENSFORD STRONG... BUT I AGREE THAT PROBABLY REPRESENTS A MISRECORDING IN THE ORIGINAL RECORD... I HAVE THOUGHT FOR SOMETIME THAT THE NAME WAS PROBABLY BERESFORD. Strangely, this Beresford would have been the daughter-in-law of the other Beresford married to Richard. (Maybe they were Aunt and niece?). Did you want any of the Wicklow material that I have copies of to add to your database? YES, VERY MUCH SO! It has been provided to a relative of mine by Wicklow Heritage Office. Presumably, you only want primary documents, and not "inferred" family history stuff. ACTUALLY I AM INTERESTED IN BOTH THE PRIMARY DOCUMENTS AND THE INFERRED FAMILY HISTORY. PART OF THE CONCEPT BEHIND THE DATA BASE IS TO BE ABLE TO COLLATE INFERRED FAMILY HISTORY WITH PRIMARY RECORD INFORMATION IN ORDER TO CORROBORATE THE INFERRED HISTORY AND TO GIVE INSIGHTS FOR FURTHER RESEARCH IN ORDER TO TRY TO ESTABLISH FURTHER LINKS. We are trying to figure out if there is any link between all these "Beresfords" and the Marquis of Waterford who has that surname. I think it highly unlikely personally, but strangely, my 5th cousins and I all grew up with the same myth, that there was a link. For it to last so long in the family, could there be some basis in truth? (eg wrong side of the blanket!) ACTUALLY, I SUSPECT THERE MAY BE AN ELEMENT OF TRUTH IN THE STORY. I BELIEVE THE WICKLOW STRONGS WERE AN OFFSHOOT OF THE STRANGE FAMILY OF WATERFORD. I HAVE A SEVEN VOLUME SET OF BOOKS ENTITLED "CALENDAR OF THE ORMOND PAPERS"... BASICALLY, A REPRODUCTION OF THE VARIOUS PAPERS OF THE DUKES OF ORMOND REACHING FROM THE 12TH TO THE 19TH CENTURIES. THERE ARE VARIOUS REFERENCES TO CERTAIN STRANGES HAVING THE GIVEN NAMES RICHARD AND PETER... WHO WERE LAWYERS, MAYORS, AND THE LIKE. IN TURN, THE WATERFORD STRANGE FAMILY CAN BE TRACED TO THE LESTRANGE FAMILY OF ENGLAND... WHILE A JUNIOR LINEAGE, THEY UNDOUBTEDLY HAD FAMILY CONNECTIONS TO THE NOBILITY. THERE MAY BE A LOT OF MATERIAL WHICH CAN HELP MAKE THE LINKS. I JUST HAVE NOT HAD THE TIME TO RESEARCH THE FAMILY, AS IT IS NOT MY FAMILY (I DESCEND FROM THE STRONGS OF DONEGAL AND FERMANAGH, WHO LATELY ARE SEEMINGLY FROM LOWLAND SCOTLAND). I WILL GLADLY SHARE THE INFO I HAVE AVAILABLE AND HOPE THAT YOU WILL BE WILLING TO HELP FILL IN THE DETAILS RE THE VARIOUS LINKAGES SO THEY CAN BE TIED UP AND PRESENTED ON THE WEBSITE! {:-) If you would be so kind as to provide me the details of item 2749, I would be so grateful Regards Jennifer Self Melbourne Australia ===================== JENNIFER... details of item 2749 as follows: The record was compiled by DoWayne Milliman, an LDS researcher who contributed various records to the data base, in 1992. He apparently obtained the data from Perogative Marriages as recorded in LDS microfilm #0100168. The data is apparently from the Parish of Rathdown, in the County of Wicklow, and shows that Richard Strong, apparently a vicar, married Anne King, spinster, on 1784Jul30. The rest of the fields on the record are blank or not useful.... hope this helps. Now, do you have a genealogy program? Are you able to compile and/or receive a GEDCOM? I have compiled a descendency for the Strongs of Fasseroe Townland, Co. Wicklow which I could possibly send to you via email. The descendency includes info I gleaned from letters of Arthur Strong, of Dublin, Ireland, dated 1959, and from certain other sources. Also, can you send me your Snail address? I may be able to photocopy the relevant documents from the Calendar of the Ormond Papers, together with copies of certain previous correspondence, and mail them to you. Regards, Dave Strong PS.... Note my regular email address as indicated on this reply message. The geocities address is valid... it is just that items addressed to me from that site are forwarded automatically to my usual email address. ==================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Jenny Self (AU, re Wicklow, Kilkenny, Waterford Strongs) Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:33 PM Subject: Wicklow Strongs > Jenny.... > > Today I did a bit more digging. In my files I found a privately > published booklet by Alice Ellison Pitts. She is or was a member of > a Strong family which traced it's roots back through Kentucky to > Dublin, Ireland. I don't know if she is still alive. In the booklet, > she presents material related to her own family, which I have dubbed > the "Tannery" Strongs, because they ran a tannery in Dublin. She > also presents material related to the family of Arthur J. Strong, whom > I have previously mentioned; the latter because while she was not > able to make the link it seemed highly possible there was one, and > besides, Arthur Strong and his family had been so helpful to her in > her research. At one point, Arthur Strong apparently made the > recollection that in his youth he heard that the "Tannery" Strongs > were cousins. How valid that was remains to be seen. > > I will send you copies of certain materials from my file, including > the portion of Alice Ellison Pitt's booklet which I have. For now, I > thought I would let you know that I found the following in the > booklet, without a source citation: > ================================== > From "Strong-Ellison-Henderson Family History" compiled by Alice > Ellison Pitts, 1413 Harroun Street, McKinney, TX 75069, in 1976, at > p.20: "1. William Strong: married Ann Darlington on February > 14,1794" > ================================== > > Interestingly, William Strong's sister, Susanna Strong, also > apparently married a Darlington, leading me to believe that the > Darlington family may have been from the same parish: > ===================================== > From "Strong-Ellison-Henderson Family History" compiled by Alice > Ellison Pitts, 1413 Harroun Street, McKinney, TX 75069, in 1976, at > p.20: "1. Susanna Strong: married Robert Darlington in 1794" > ================================== > > Also, my memory was refreshed that there is a possibility the Wicklow > Strongs are related to certain Strong stone masons from the Bristol, > England area who had a role in the construction of St.Paul's Cathedral > in London. I will also mail a bit about that... and just tell you > that I seem to recall seeing more about the stone masons someplace and > will try to find that too.... and, the possible link to LeStrange of > Hunstanton still continues... even perhaps thru the stone masons... > > Regards. > Dave Strong > ========== ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenny Self To: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 4:58 PM Subject: Fw: Darlingtons and Hicks from Wicklow. > Dave - I know this is a little outside your area of interest, but I found > this chap on the internet. His web page interested me because the surnames > Darlington, Buckley and Hicks showed up. All his lot came from Powerscourt > and Wicklow and at about the same time as the family we have been > discussing. You will be familiar with the Darlington and Buckley names, > since brothers William and Charles had wives with those 2 surnames. The > Hicks comes into my picture, because when I was looking for Beresford > Burton's family (who married Richard Strong), I found a family consisting of > George Burton and Bridget HICKS from the Powerscourt Wicklow area. Also, use > of same christian names in the families below as compared with the Strongs. > (Not that that means much though - they all seem pretty popular except for > Beresford). What is this thing with Beresford anyway? I know about the nobs > with that surname, but why this wild passion amongst the natives of Wicklow > for bestowing the name on their daughters? Its a jolly ugly name in my > opinion. My mother's Aunt was Beresford (called Beres all her life) and the > kids at school used to call her "Bear-ass" (in our version of English, we > pronounce "ass" as "arse", not like the Americans do). This anecdote has > coloured my view of the name ever since! > CHeers Jenny Self ======================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daryl Povey" > To: "Jenny Self" > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 4:47 PM > Subject: Re: Darlingtons and Hicks from Wicklow. > > > > Hi Jenny > > > > My interest in these families has been through trying to locate the > > pioneers who settlked in the Merino, Digby, Hotspur area in sw Vic. > > > > I have a family of John HICKS and Ellen DALTON from Wicklow which appears > > to be as follows: > > > > Name: John HICKS > > > > Birth: ca 1796 > > Death: 1881 Merino, Vic, Aus[1] > > Father: John HICKS (~1770-) > > Mother: Mary MILLER (~1770-) > > > > Misc. Notes > > Died aged 85, probably the father of Robert & Mary > > > > Spouse: Ellen DALTON > > > > Birth: ca 1808 > > Death: 1882 Merino, Vic, Aus[1] > > Father: Robert DALTON (~1780-) > > Mother: Ellen WINTERS (~1780-) > > > > Misc. Notes > > Died aged 74, probably the mother of Robert & Mary > > > > > > Children: > > > > 1 F: Mary HICKS > > Birth: 1832 Wicklow, Irl > > Death: 1906 Nhill, Vic, Aus[2] > > Immigration: Eng > Portland 1855 per "Cairngorm" > > Spouse: Robert Darlington BUCKLEY > > Marriage: 1856 Portland, Vic, Aus[3] > > > > 2 M: Robert HICKS > > Birth: 1836 Wicklow, Irl > > Death: 1901 Kaniva, Vic, Aus[4] > > Residence: Casterton District [5] > > Spouse: Johanna BRENNAN > > Marriage: 1858 Merino, Vic, Aus[3] > > > > 3 M: John Dalton HICKS > > Birth: ca 1840 Portland, Vic, Aus[4] > > Death: ca 1915 Hotham West, Vic, Aus[6] > > > > Misc. Notes > > This John Dalton HICKS may be of a different generation. > > > > Spouse: Alice Maud BROWN > > Marriage: ca 1906 Vic, Aus[4] > > > > 4 M: William HICKS > > Birth: abt 1840 Irl[1] > > Death: ca 1892 Sale, Vic, Aus[2] > > > > Misc. Notes > > Probable family member given the birth locations of some children. There > is > > a death of a Wm HICKS at Sale in 1892. > > > > Spouse: Ann Jane BOYD > > Marriage: 1871 Vic, Aus[1] > > > > 5 F: Susannah HICKS > > Birth: ca 1841 Wicklow, Irl > > Death: ca 1868 Vic, Aus[1] > > Spouse: Charles McBeath WHYTE > > Marriage: ca 1858 Vic, Aus[1] > > > > 6 F: Ellen HICKS > > Birth: ca 1850 Wicklow, Irl[1] > > Death: ca 1918 Ultima, Vic, Aus[6] > > Spouse: Frederick Edward MAGNUS > > Marriage: ca 1879 Vic, Aus[1] > > Spouse: John COLLINS > > Marriage: ca 1868 Vic, Aus[1] > > > > 7 F: Martha HICKS > > Birth: ca 1856 Wicklow, Irl[1] > > Death: ca 1900 Casterton, Vic, Aus[2] > > Spouse: Robert Jacob MACKWOOD > > Marriage: 1877 Vic, Aus[1] > > > > > > Sources > > 1. VIC BDM Pioneers Index 1837-1888 CD ROM > > 2. VIC BDM Federation Index 1889-1901 CD ROM > > 3. VicGold Genealogy Database (WWW Trial Nov 1996) > > 4. VIC BDM Edwardian Index 1902-1913 CD ROM > > 5. "Four Towns and a Survey" - Noel F. LEARMONTH Hawthorn Press, > Melbourne, > > 1970 > > 6. VIC BDM Great War Index 1914-1918 CD ROM > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > The BUCKLEY / HICKS connection I have is as follows with Robert Darlington > > BUCKLEY being the top name I know. I do not know his parents. Would be > very interested if you can find anything linking > > > > Name: Robert Darlington BUCKLEY > > > > Birth: 1833 Picknasilla, Wicklow, Irl > > Death: 1919 Nhill, Vic, Aus[1] > > Marriage: 1856 Portland, Vic, Aus[2] > > > > Spouse: Mary HICKS > > > > Birth: 1832 Wicklow, Irl > > Death: 1906 Nhill, Vic, Aus[3] > > Father: John HICKS (ca1796-1881) > > Mother: Ellen DALTON (ca1808-1882) > > > > Children: > > > > 1 M: Francis BUCKLEY > > Birth: 1857 Digby, Vic, Aus[4] > > Death: ca 1921 Nhill, Vic, Aus[5] > > Spouse: Sarah MARTIN > > Marriage: 1890 Vic, Aus[3] > > > > 2 M: John BUCKLEY > > Birth: 1859 Rifle Downs (Near Digby), Vic, AUS[4] > > Death: ca 1901 Nhill, Vic, Aus[3] > > > > Misc. Notes > > There is a John BUCKLEY on the Merino War Memorial for WW1. > > > > Spouse: Catherine Cecilia BRUDER > > Marriage: 1890 Vic, Aus[3] > > > > 3 F: Ellen BUCKLEY > > Birth: 1860 Rifle Downs (Near Digby), Vic, AUS[4] > > Death: 1943 Hamilton, Vic, Aus[5] > > Spouse: John GREY > > Marriage: 1880 Vic, Aus[4] > > > > 4 M: Benjamin Alfred BUCKLEY > > Birth: 1862 Merino, Vic, Aus > > Death: 1923 Nhill, Vic, Aus[5] > > Spouse: Susan Margery WHITE > > Marriage: 1898 Vic, Aus[3] > > > > 5 F: Mary Jane BUCKLEY > > Birth: 1866 Merino, Vic, Aus[4] > > > > 6 F: Catherine Elizabeth BUCKLEY > > Birth: 1868 Merino, Vic, Aus[4] > > Spouse: William Edward PARKIN > > Marriage: 1891 Vic, Aus[3] > > > > 7 M: Robert Darlington BUCKLEY > > Birth: 1870 Merino, Vic, Aus[4] > > Death: 1948 Warrnambool, Vic, Aus[5] > > Spouse: Mabel May WARREN > > Marriage: ca 1899 Vic, Aus[3] > > > > Sources > > 1. VIC BDM Great War Index 1914-1918 CD ROM > > 2. VicGold Genealogy Database (WWW Trial Nov 1996) > > 3. VIC BDM Federation Index 1889-1901 CD ROM > > 4. VIC BDM Pioneers Index 1837-1888 CD ROM > > 5. VIC Death Index 1921-1985 CD Rom > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > > I would be very interested if you are able to make any links, corrections, > > connections, etc with these family groups. > > > > Regards, Daryl Povey ----------------------------------- > > At 16:18 12/10/00 +1100, you wrote: > > > > > >Hello, > > >I live in Melbourne. I've just finished emailing another relative of > yours about this family, so use pretty much the same text in this email to you. > > >I'm intrigued by your Powerscourt Wicklow connections, since I have some > > >from the same place with the same surnames! Hoping we might be able to > > >help each other. My Darlington rello, was an Ann Darlington, born > > >Powerscourt Wicklow about 1773. She married William Strong in 1794, Their > > >daughter Beresford Strong was born about 1800 and emigrated with husband > > >George Abraham in 1834. They settled with the Allens at Allensford near > > >Warrnambool. Anyway, the Buckley comes in because William Strong's > brother Charles, married a Beresford Buckley, daughter of John Buckley and > > >Beresford Stanley. She was born about 1777, and married Charles Strong > > >about 1796. All of these people were from Powerscourt Wicklow, which I > > >understand was not a big place. I have also scribbled down some stuff for > > >a Bridget Hicks, who was married to a George BURTON in 1784 in > > >Powerscourt. Got them from the LDS web site. William Strong's parents > were Richard Strong and Beresford Burton - that's why I've scribbled down the > > >Hick's lady. My best source of info though has been a Dave Strong who has > > >gathered together material from private diaries. He's Saint Dave Strong > to me! Anyway, if you get this email, I'd love to hear from you. Maybe we > can help each other. Certainly we have a lot of overlapping names here! I > also have a web site, which you can't pick up with scans. What a pain. Anyway, > > >at the moment I only have George Abraham and Beresford Strong + > > >descendants, but hope to add the rest of the Powerscourt Wicklow mob > > >before long. So you can have a look if you are interested. It is > > (editor's note website is no longer at the address previously given) > > >Cheers Jenny Self > > >Rosanna > > > > Daryl K. Povey, Ballarat, Australia > > Ballarat Genealogy - > > Digby, Hotspur, etc - =========== ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Jenny Self < Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:31 PM Subject: Re: Darlingtons and Hicks from Wicklow. > Hi Jenny! > > I got a kick out of your discussion below.... "Bear-ass" indeed! > {:-) I am not sure at all about this.... It could be merely a bit > of family tradition that got started early on and kept showing up > repeatedly in ensuing generations... or it could be rooted in some > attempt to maintain identity with the Beresford family in an early > connection that probably arose through marriage of a Strong to a > Beresford female. Possibly a "strong" female matriarchal figure... > > I suspect these Strongs were upper-middle class in a day when most > folks were either nobility or lower class with darned little in > between... they seem to have a merchantile bent and may well have had > enough money for one of their sons to have married a bit "above > himself" as they say. That might have had something to do with the > Beresford thing. And, by the way, take a look at the differing > spellings... Berisford in particular. There MAY be something in > that. > > Again, the place name "Berryfields"... is this somehow related to > Berresford? It might be worth looking into the origins of that > place name, recognizing that some of the townland names were > Anglicised from something gaelic... when the names were not outright > changed to represent English names and places and Interests. > > I suggest you research the various Lords Powerscourt and family.... > Powerscourt Demesne implies a significant family seat or mansion and > grounds.... and there may well be estate records which might be > useful in figuring out what was going on.... showing things like > tenancys, leases, contracts with various named individuals; noting > names, relationships, term-lengths of the leases, townlands involved > ... and if you can figure out where in England the Powerscourts > were from, you MIGHT have a location to look for your further Strong, > Abraham, Buckley, Burton, etal families. My theory is that the > lordly families tended to bring their underlings with them from > England to Ireland.... You might want to take a browse through The > National archives in Dublin website... it contains a catalogue of > Estate holdings... you might get lucky and hit the jackpot... or at > least find something you can have someone research for you: > > > Also, take a look at the following website: > > This will filll you in on the St. Paul's Cathedral lineage, and note > the item: > "8. William Strong - B. 1651. M. Frances ______." > I have emailed Martha Strong requesting any info she might have re > this couple... (I will forward a copy FYI) no answer yet; however, > this MIGHT be an ancestor of the Wicklow Strongs... one generation > earlier than anything we have yet. The trick may be to research > William and Frances and determine whether they left England and went > to Ireland. Query.... WHO built the massive stone buildings of the > government in Dublin? Did they bring in Strongs from the family > discussed in the above website to oversee the work? And, perhaps a > community of Stone Masons? Was there a quarry in the area of > Powerscourt???? I don't know, but these may be interesting avenues > of investigation! > > Finally, note that many of the Protestant families in Ireland tended > to stay in one locale all their lives. They intermarried with other > similar families and it was not uncommon for cousins to marry ... and > for the pattern to be repeated over several generations.... I suspect > you may find your self looking at a whole string of relationships with > the Abraham, Buckley, Burton, Darlington, and Hicks families... and > others as well. It is a good idea to research the whole community... > because you will find details of connections that will relate back > again and again. (Rather incestuously!) > > I mailed a package to you today... surface as opposed to air mail.... > it may get there in a few months by tramp steamer. Keep me posted.... > I'll be back in a week or so. For now, I'm Carolina bound... > > Regards > > A very "Un-saintly" Dave Strong {:-) > ======================================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Martha F.B. Strong (PA, re Southwest England) Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 5:34 PM Subject: Timothy Strong line-St Paul's Cathedral > Hi Martha... > > Recently I have been taking another look at the Strongs of Co. > Wicklow, Ireland. There is some thought that they may be related to > the Timothy Strong lineage you present at: > > > I am particularly interested in what you may know about the following > individuals: > > "8. William Strong - B. 1651. M. Frances ______." > > Do you have a source for this info, or other reference materials which > can be examined concerning them and the lineage? The earliest > Wicklow Strong I have found so far is a William Strong (b.1681, d.30 > Mar 1761). He obviously is not your William Strong, above. However, > the given name is the same, and one of the Wicklow Strongs made a > statement many years ago that he had reason to believe his lineage was > related to the Strongs who built St. Paul's Cathedral. > > Any help you can give will be appreciated! > > By the By.... We are traveling thru parts of Pennsylvania later this > week en-route to visit Marilynn's son and family in North Carolina for > a week. Tell me where, and I will wave as we go past! {:-) > > Regards, > Dave Strong > ======================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Martha Cc: Jenny Self (AU, re Wicklow-Dublin Strongs) Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 10:59 PM Subject: Re: Timothy Strong line-St Paul's Cathedral > Martha... > > I did wave as I went by on I-81... but it was a few miles off! > > Thanks for the info... I am passing this message to Jenny Self in > Australia... with the addition that I have access to Vol.5 and can > send the info on to Jenny.... However, I did look at the book and > didn't see anything directly in the info re Timothy Strong to tell > anything further about what became of the son "8. William Strong - B. > 1651. M. Frances ______." whom I was interested in.... Ah well, we > just keep trying I guess. > > Thanks, > Dave Strong > ================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Martha > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:08 PM > Subject: Re: Timothy Strong line-St Paul's Cathedral > > > Dear Dave, > > As I remember it the Timothy Strong information came from a > descendant and > > should be in volume 5. Bob Sheldon should be able to send you the > information > > from that volume. > > > > I will check to see what I have also. > > > > I am in ......., Pa. > > > > Martha > > =============== ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Patricia Strong (NM, re Co Wicklow & Dublin) ; Jenny Self (AU, re Wicklow-Dublin Strongs) ; Dell Maw (AU, re Co's Wicklow & Dublin Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 8:36 PM Subject: Dublin Strongs and Richard P. Strong > Patricia... > > I don't know how much Irish Research you may have done to this point, > nor do I know whether you have read any of my website materials. > However, to try to fill you in a bit, some years ago I acquired copies > of some research materials re the Strongs of Ireland, including > certain info about Strongs in Counties Waterford, Wicklow and Dublin > who included in their descendencies various "Richard Strong's". > Recently I have been sharing that info with Jenny Self, and thru her > with Dell Maw. > > It appears that the Strongs of Wicklow, and some of the Strongs of > Dublin may be related to a certain family of stone masons who are > noted for having supplied the building stone for the construction of > St. Paul's Cathedral, London, England. The late Arthur Strong, who > died at the age of about 95 in 1974 stated in a 1959 letter to a > Strong researcher that he "had reason to believe" his lineage was > related to the St. Paul's Cathedral stone masons. There is a page > on the SFAA website outlining some info re the descendency of this > family from a certain Timothy Strong in the 17th century. Take a > look at the following website: > > This will filll you in on the St. Paul's Cathedral lineage, and note > the item: > "8. William Strong - B. 1651. M. Frances ______." > William Strong and wife Frances seem to have disappeared from the > research done by earlier researchers. Speculatively, they may have > gone to Ireland and founded the lineage in question re the Strongs of > Wicklow. > > Now, there is at least one Richard Strong who apparently became a > vicar in the protestant Church of Ireland, circa 1784-1820. We > haven't got much on him because no one has done much research > concerning him. I suspect there is plenty to be learned ... and just > possibly he might have fathered your Richard P. Strong... who might > have turned Catholic when marrying Fanny Ryan. Because the Rev. > Richard Strong shows up in Wicklow, as well as Dublin, I am > speculating that he may have been related to the rest of the Wicklow > Strongs... Jenny and Dell's bunch, whom I have previously dubbed the > Strongs of Fasseroe Townland, which is where they seem to have come. > > To take this a step further, as I have previously shared with Jenny > and Dell, in my files I have a privately published (in ~1971-4) > booklet by Alice Ellison Pitts of Texas. She is or was a member of a > Strong family which traced it's roots back through Kentucky to Dublin, > Ireland. I don't know if she is still alive. In the booklet, she > presents material related to her own family, which I have dubbed the > "Tannery" Strongs, because they ran a tannery in Dublin. She also > presents material related to the family of Arthur J. Strong, whom I > have previously mentioned; the latter because while she was not able > to make the link it seemed highly possible there was one, and besides, > Arthur Strong and his family had been so helpful to her in her > research. At one point, Arthur Strong apparently made the > recollection that in his youth he heard that the "Tannery" Strongs > were cousins. How valid that was remains to be seen. However, a > relevant point from your standpoint is that certain of Mrs. Pitt's > research focused on a Dublin Strong family who were Catholic... and > this represents a second possible line of inquiry for you. > > Another line of inquiry is one I previously mentioned to Jenny, that > there were a number of Richard Strongs who were related to a line out > of County Waterford, Ireland. This is actually a very ancient > lineage, which started as L'Estrange and became Strange and later > Stronge or Strong. It dates to the 15th century, and again, while I > have considerable data about the lineage, I have never had the time to > try to put it into a descendency chart, nor obviously to try to sort > out how the various data I have ties together.... altho it obviously > does. Since I don't know enough about this lineage, I can only > speculate that since it predates the Reformation, originally this > lineage was Catholic... and may have had Catholic adherents into the > 19th century... altho some of my info definitely comes from the > protestant Church of Ireland. > > And, there probably were offshoots from the Waterford lineage. I am > aware of a Strong family from Lehinch, Co. Tipperary who were > Catholic.... I speculate they may have been descended from the > Waterford line... but I don't recall there being any Richard Strongs > in that line. > > So, you can see, there are several possibilities here. Remember that > Dublin was the capitol of Ireland ... it attracted folks from all over > Ireland... and you can't just assume with a Dubliner that he was > always from Dublin. He MIGHT be from anywhere else and have ties to > Wicklow, Tipperary, Waterford, or whereever. And, the 1922 Four > Courts Fire puts a lot of the research into the "difficult" category. > You are never going to find birth certificates, or even parish records > which will definitely prove anything prior to about 1840. > > Have I scared you, or are you interested in persuing this research in > further depth???? {:-) > > Regards > Dave Strong ============== ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Jenny Self (AU, re Wicklow-Dublin Strongs) ; Dell Maw (AU, re Co's Wicklow & Dublin Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 7:58 PM Subject: Wicklow and Dublin Strongs > Jenny and Dell: > > Questions: 1) Please help me nail down the source of the records you > sent me which were obtained from the Wicklow Heritage Center. I have > assumed they were Parish Records researched by staff at the WHC.... > but NEED verification of that for the Data Base. > > 2) I gather the package of material I snail mailed to you got there in > a somewhat timely fashion? > > 3) I can photocopy the Timothy Strong descendency from Vol 5 SFAA and > mail as well. Do you want me to??? The descendency is more > extensive than that which appears on the SFAA website.... and there > are references as follows: "Taynton Church Records; Bodleian > Library, Oxford, England "History of Hertforshire", by Robert T. > Clutterbuck; "Cotswold Masons", by Janet Jarris. Submitted by Mrs. > Elisabeth Strong Knapp, ..... Weslake, OH, USA". I don't have copies of those reference materials. ============== ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Strong & Marilynn Dunne To: Patricia Strong (NM, re Co Wicklow & Dublin) ; Jenny Self (AU, re Wicklow-Dublin Strongs) ; Dell Maw (AU, re Co's Wicklow & Dublin ; Judith Schumer (AU re Co.Wicklow & Dublin) Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 1:57 PM Subject: Researching Strong Stone Masons > Hi... > During my previous discussions with Jenny, I had in the back of my > mind some previously published emails on the Roots web Strong-List. > I took a look at the archieves which can be accessed at the following > website: > > > and found the messages below. They may be helpful in making a > connection between the Wicklow Strongs and the Timothy Strong lineage; > again, I think it might be useful to look at who supplied stone for > building public buildings in Dublin! Note, I have not previously > mentioned that the name Valentine Strong appears frequently in the > Irish records.... again in connection with Waterford and other > locations in the south of Ireland. There may be another lead in this > as well: > > ====================================================================== > Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 07:30:45 -0400 (EDT) > From: Martha > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Subject: Strong - St. Paul's London > > Dear Dave > > I. Tymothie Stronge - b. Wiltshire, Eng., > 1635/36, Little Barrington, Gloucester. > > His grandson's account of the family can > be found "History of Hertfordshire" by Robert > T. Clutterbuck. > > Tymothie owned quaries in Little Barrington, > Gloucester and Teynton, Oxford. He had > apprentices and several masons and labourers. > > In 1632/33 largely rebuilt the south front of the > Cornbury house in Oxfordshire, Henry Danvers, > Earl of Danvers, to the designs of Nicolas Stone. > > In 1634 he and his son, worked on the > Canterbury Quadrangle at St. John's College, > Oxford University. > > The quarries were left to his son at his death. > > Children > 1. Ann Stronge - b. 30 Aug. 1607, Little Barrington > 2. Valentine Stronge > > II. Valentine Stronge - b. 1609, Little Barrington, d. > Nov. 1662, Fairford, Gloucester, M. Ann Margettts, > dau. of Edmund Margetts, bpt. 30 Aug. 1607, > Charburg. > > He moved to Teynton, Oxford. > He built - Manor House at Lower Slaughter for > the Whitmore Family. > Park Lodge near the village of Sherborne, prob. > to the design of John Webb, chief assistant to > Indigo Jones. > > Inscription on his monument: > Here lyeth the body of Valentine Stronge, > Free Mason > He departed this life November the .......A.D. > 1662 > Here's one that was a able workman long, > Who divrs houses built, both fair and Stronge; > Though Strong he was, a stronger came than > he, > And robb'd him of his life and fame, we see: > Moving an old house a new one for to rear, > Death met him by the way, and laid him more. > > Children > 1. Thomas Stronge - b. 1632, d. 1681. > 1663 he built those large stables for the Earl > of Clarendon at Cornbury, Oxford. > 1665 He built lodgings for scholars at Trinity > College, Oxford University, under the direction > of Dr. Christopher Wren, of Wadham College, > Oxford. > Abt. 1665 He built that part of Cornbury House > fronting Oxford, and all the Terrass-walls thereto. > > 1666 - Fire of London - > 1667 - Thomas Stronge provided stone from the > quarries and sent it to London and sold it to > other masons. > > Children > 1. Elizabeth Strong - b. 20 Sept. 1640 > 2. Lucy Strong - b. 1641, d. 17 Oct. 1643 > 3. Sarah Strong - b. 2 Nov. 1645 > 4. Valentine Strong - bpt. 14 Nov. 1647, d. 1706 > M. Jane ( ) > Children > a. Timothy Strong bpt. 1672/73 > b. John Strong bpt. 14 Sept. 1679 > c. Mary Strong b. 2 Dec. 1684 > d. Valentine Strong b. 16 Sept. 1686 > e. Thomas Strong b. 17 Dec. 1688 > f. Edward Strong b. 28 Oct. 1690 > 5. Timothy Strong - bpt. 18 Mar. 1649 > 6. William Strong - b. 1651. M. Frances ( ) > 7. Edward Strong - bpt. 5 Sept. 1652. M. > Martha Beauchamp, dau. of Edward > Beauchamp and Margery. > Children > a. Edward Strong b. 1674, d. 1741 > b. Thomas Strong b. 1685, d. 1736 > c. John Strong b. 1690, d. 1757 > 8. Lucy Strong - > 9. John Strong of Stanford Berks. b. 1653, d.1725. > > This is the family the the inscription was about. > > Remember the men who > Made Shapley the Stones > of St. Paul's Cathedrel > 1675 -1708 > Edward Strong Thomas Strong > And all who Laboured with them. > > St. Paul's Cathedrel was designed by > Christopher Wren. The Strong's supplied > the stone and worked under him as Master > Masons. Later they had to return to repair > the Dome of the Cathedrel. > > In Vol. V. Strong Update there are descendants > of this family. > > References used by the compiler - > Elisabeth Knapp. > "Taynton Church Records"; Bodleian Library, > Oxford > "History of Hertfordshire", by Robert T. > Clutterbuck. > "Cotswold Masons" by Janet Jarris. > > You can access Bodleian Library Oxford, they > have a Homepage. There is also a wealth of > information on the Cotswold Stone on Internet. > > ==== STRONG Mailing List ==== > THE STRONGS OF IRELAND DATABASE: > David B. ("Dave") Strong, Site Manager > > Strongs in Ireland, including Scot-Irish > Manuscript: Researching Strongs of Ireland, > by David B. Strong > > ======================================================== > The recent description of family relationships leading up to George > and > Edward Strong being memorialized in St. Pauls cathedral in London was > most > interesting. I sent it on to my brother William Allen Strong in New > Jersey. He had first made us aware of the memorial in St. Pauls. In > a > visit to England several years ago he and his wife, Nancy, came back > with a > picture they had taken of the memorial. In fact, I believe it was > subsequently published in the SFAA newsletter. > > In response to my message to him he replied with a quotation from a > guide > book that they bought at Blenheim Palace which reads as follows: > > [After Queen Anne's death the Duke of Marlborough decided to finish > the > palace at his own expense.] "But there were difficulties. Men of > skill > and standing, like Grinling Gibbons and the Edward Strongs (who part > owned > the famous quarries at Taynton, near Burford, and had worked as chief > masons on St. Pauls) had been paid by the treasury only a third of > what was > due them for Blenheim. That was bad enough, but now they were told > that > the rates they had been charging were Crown rates. For the Duke they > must > lower them. This for reputation's sake and for other good reasons > they > could not bring themselves to do. That is why Gibbons completed only > one > of the four marble doorcases in the Saloon, and why foreman masons > took > over in 1716 and carried on at the lower rates their masters could not > afford to accept." > > As you may recall, Gibbons was a famous woodcarver, but at Blenheim he > did > some ornamental stonework. > > Larry > > > ONG+1997+7722057741+MESSAGE-BODY > > =======================================================

The Irish Strong Database remains in development and is subject to further research and revision. Interested persons should contact David B. Strong concerning the contents of the database at any time. Contributions or Corrections are welcome!

DISCLAIMER: No guarantees, either express or implied, are made about the accuracy of the information that appears on these web pages. The Site Manager is not responsible for errors in the data, nor from faulty analysis thereof. All data should be verified from original or primary sources, whenever those sources are available.

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Go to the Master Name Index, Irish Strong Database, or the IDB County Index. Please also check the separate Irish Strong Births, Marriages & Deaths Index, as much data there is NOT repeated in the Irish Strong Data Base.
Go to: "Book I: Researching Strong(e) and Strang(e) in Britain and Ireland"; 1st Edition (Geocities)Copyright 1997-2001; David B. Strong; All Rights Reserved.
Go to: "Book I: Researching Strong(e) and Strang(e) in Britain and Ireland"; 2nd Edition (Rootsweb)Copyright 2001; David B. Strong; All Rights Reserved.

Go to the Donegal Strong Puzzle

Go to the Strong Genealogy Network Home Page; while you are there, find other web addresses for members of the Strong Genealogy Network!

Go to the Strong Quest - including the STRONG-List Home Page,

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To review some of the discussion on the Strong-List in the past, Go to the Strong List Archives. or go to the Rootsweb Archives.

Please let us know if this webpage has been helpful! We would very much appreciate being advised of any possible additions or corrections to the database or the descendency chart set out here. Email: David B. Strong Created Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 11:05:37 AM
Last Updated: Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 11:05:44 AM

Copyright 2001, Email: David B. Strong

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