Haplogroup R1b (DYS391=10) Part III

Haplogroup R1b (DYS391=10)

The Atlantic Modal Haplotype has many variants. Any basic haplotype that differs from

the AMH values of 14-12-24-11-13-13 by a single step, on any marker, in any direction, is

still considered part of AMH. The haplotypes below exhibit the basic marker values

14-12-24-10-13-13, which puts them in that category.

Analysis of the various R1b haplotypes with these markers shows predictably high

frequencies in typical Iberian and "Celtic" locales, yet with hints of both Scandinavian or

Germanic influences in many cases. This suggests that this haplotype may have entered

Britain occasionally with the Normans, the Anglo-Saxons or the Flemish, as well as with

the Iberians or the Celts.

We tentatively conclude that DYS391=10 does not signify a subgroup of R1b

with a specific geographical bias.

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #19

The haplotype below shows no real pattern. No European locales exhibit high

frequencies, and either a Norman, Anglo-Saxon or Celtiberian origin is entirely possible.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 14 31 25 10 13 13 - -

Geographical Locale

%
Maryland [European-American] 1.37
Cape Town, South Africa [European] 1.00
Paris, France .92
Hamburg, Northern Germany .88
Wroclaw, Poland .83
Ireland .66
Northern Spain [Basque] .60
Chemnitz, Saxony .22

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #20

The match pattern for the haplotype below is scanty but consistent, and suggests a Celtiberian origin.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 25 10 13 13 10 14

Geographical Locale

%
Sao Paulo, Brazil [European] .22
Southern Portugal .89

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #21

This haplotype has a largely Iberian match pattern. However, there is a high frequency match in Sweden, and the

only locale with multiple matches is Leipzig (3 out of 661). The Iberian nature of the match pattern begins to

mutate strangely into something Germanic once one starts to remember that there were Visigoths and Suevi in Portugal,

Goths in Catalonia and the Pyrenees, and Vandals in Andulacia.

One must remind oneself of Occam's Razor, however, and not let hallucinations of Teutonic hordes overwhelm the

obvious explanation - that this haplotype probably came to Britain with Celts or Iberians.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 10 14

Geographical Locale

%
Skaraborg, Sweden 2.13
Buenos Aires, Argentina [European] 1.00
Pyrenees, Spain .75
Andulacia, Southern Spain .61
Barcelona, Catalonia .45
Leipzig, Saxony .45
Central Portugal .43
Northern Portugal .32

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #22

This partial haplotype is a tricky one. Like many R1b haplotypes with DYS19 values of 15, it exhibits a vaguely

bipolar distribution among samples of Iberian (or Hispanic) or Northeast European origin. Yet its highest frequency

occurs in Syria. Judging from its geographical match pattern, this haplotype could have come to Britain with

Vikings, Germans, prehistoric Iberians or even Middle Eastern merchants or Roman auxiliaries. As an R1b, it is

most likely of native British origin, but it does have the distribution of a real wild card.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
15 14 31 24 10 13 13 11 13-14-15

Geographical Locale

%
Damascus, Syria 1.00
Wladiwostok, Russia [European] .68
New York City [European-American] .65
Bratislava, Slovakia .61
Muenster, Germany .51
USA [Hispanic-American] .43
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil [European] .41
Buenos Aires, Argentina [European] .15

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #23

This haplotype is only two steps removed from the Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype. Consequently, it is very common.

However, it is one and a half times as common in Ireland as it is in its nearest European competitor (Oslo, Norway), and

several of the top several hits occur in samples of Iberian ancestry. This haplotype could have come to Britain from

multiple sources, but it probably came most often with the prehistoric Iberians or the pre-Roman Celts.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 11 15

Geographical Locale

%
Ireland 4.61
Florida [Hispanic-American] 4.35
Maryland [Hispanic-American] 3.85
Virginia [European-American] 3.28
Louisiana [European-American] 3.23
Pennsylvania [Hispanic-American] 3.13
Oslo, Norway 3.00
Cologne, Westphalia 2.96
Indiana [African-American] 2.70
Virginia [Hispanic-American] 2.17
Virginia [African-American] 2.13
Dusseldorf, Westphalia 2.00
Bologna, Italy 1.96
Umbria, Italy 1.96
Marche, Italy 1.85
Uppsala, Sweden 1.75
Missouri [European-American] 1.69
Brussels, Belgium 1.60
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil [European] 1.59
Pyrenees, Spain 1.49
Texas [Hispanic-American] 1.35
Baranya, Hungary [Romani] 1.28
Texas [European-American] 1.28
Liguria, Italy 1.23
Dresden, Saxony 1.16
Netherlands 1.15
Asturias, Spain 1.11
Bern, Switzerland 1.10
Caceres, Spain 1.10
London, England 1.05
Leiden, Netherlands 1.04
Strasbourg, France 1.01
Argentina [European] 1.00
Cantabria, Northern Spain .99
Lausanne, Switzerland .93
Tuscany, Italy .92
Barcelona, Catalonia .90
Southern Portugal .89
Central Portugal .87
Lyon, France .80
Choco, Colombia [African] .75
Valencia, Spain .71
Bogota, Colombia [European] .68
New York City [African-American] .67
Switzerland .67
Antioquia, Colombia [European] .67
Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg .66
Munster, Westphalia .51
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg .46
Latium, Italy .45
Sao Paulo, Brazil [European] .44
Munich, Bavaria .40
Berlin, Brandenburg .36
London, England [Afro-Caribbean] .34
Northern Portugal .32
Leipzig, Saxony .15
Chemnitz, Saxony .12

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #24

The highest match frequencies for the haplotype below occur in Iberia and among Hispanic Americans. Indeed, the top

frequency occurs among Basques. There are many other matches among Iberians, Hispanics and Latin Americans, and

most of the non-Iberian European matches fall in areas of known Celtic settlement, such as Switzerland, Northern Italy,

the Rhine Valley and The Netherlands.

It is overwhelmingly likely that this haplotype came to Britain with the prehistoric Iberians or later Celtic migrants.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 14 30 24 10 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
Northern Spain [Basque] 2.38
Oregon [Hispanic-American] 2.38
Madeira, Portugal 2.04
Zaragoza, Aragon 1.67
Maryland [African-American] 1.37
Texas [Hispanic-American] 1.35
New York City [African-American] 1.33
Liguria, Italy 1.23
Netherlands 1.15
Emilia Romagna, Italy 1.12
Bern, Switzerland 1.10
Strasbourg, Alsace 1.01
Cantabria, Northern Spain .99
Marche, Italy .93
Barcelona, Catalonia .89
El Salvador .83
Brussels, Belgium .80
Kurds, Iraq .80
Antioquia, Colombia [European] .74
Valencia, Spain .71
Bogota, Colombia [European] .68
New York City [European-Amercan] .65
Vilnius, Lithuania .64
Andulacia, Southern Spain .61
Lombardy, Italy .55
Munster, Westphalia .51
Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemburg .46
Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt .35
Argentina [European] .33
Sao Paulo, Brazil [European] .22
Berlin, Brandenburg .18
Gdansk, Poland .18
Leipzig, Saxony .12

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #25

The haplotype below occurs predominantly in Iberian or Latin American samples, although it also occurs in the

Netherlands, the Rhineland and Northern Italy. All these areas belong to the Celtiberian ethnosphere where R1b is

most common. This haplotype most likely came to Britain with prehistoric Iberians, or with later Celtic immigrants.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 14 30 24 10 13 13 11 15

Geographical Locale

%
Florida [Hispanic-American] 4.35
Limburg, Netherlands 2.00
Maryland, USA [European-American] 1.56
Antioquia, Colombia [European] 1.23
Emilia Romagna, Italy 1.12
Cantabria, Spain .99
Mainz, Rhenish-Palatinate .96
Choco, Colombia [African] .75
New York City [African-American] .67
New York City [Hispanic-American] .67
Andulacia, Spain .61
Northern Spain [Basque] .60
Latium, Italy .45
Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg .93

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #26

This haplotype is quite common and exhibits a very interesting match pattern. There are many matches

in the usual Celtic or Celtiberian areas - Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Northern Italy and

the Rhineland. In fact, the only two locales with multiple matches are in Spain and Brazil.

Yet at the same time there are several matches in Eastern Europe, and the two highest match frequencies

are actually in Sweden and northwestern Greece.

This haplotype most likely came to Britain with the Iberians or the Celts, but it may also have come from

other sources. There is a distinct hit in this match pattern - with its mixture of Southeastern Europe, the

Baltic, Portugal and Northern Italy - of the Germanic wanderings of the first millennium. This haplotype

might therefore have come to Britain with Roman troops of Germanic or Southeastern European origin, or

even with the Anglo-Saxons or the Danes. After all, two of the three highest match frequencies do fall in

Scandinavia and The Low Countries.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
15 13 29 24 10 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
Epirus, Greece 7.14
Varmland, Sweden 2.33
Zeeland, Netherlands 2.17
Valencia, Spain 2.14
Emilia Romagna, Italy 1.12
Sao Paulo, Brazil [European] 1.12
Leiden, Netherlands 1.04
Cantabria, Spain .99
Mainz, Rhenish-Palatinate .96
Krakow, Poland .93
Marche, Italy .93
Southern Portugal .89
Ljubljana, Slovenia .83
Lublin, Poland .75
Cologne, Westphalia .74
Dusseldorf, Westphalia .67
New York City [Hispanic-American] .67
Switzerland .67
Madrid, Spain .66
Andulacia, Spain .61
Munich, Bavaria .39
London, England .35
Magdeburg, Saxony-Anhalt .35
Northern Portugal .32
Antioquia, Colombia [European] .25
Leipzig, Saxony .15

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #27

The match pattern for this haplotype suggests an origin in Southern Europe. There several matches in Spain, and

among Latin Americans, so this haplotype may be - and probably is, in the case of a "Border Reiver" descendant -

of prehistoric Iberian origin. That would be typical of any pre-Roman or pre-Celtic Briton.

However, two of the top match frequencies, and 5 out of 9 matches in Europe proper, occur in Albania and Greece.

A related haplotype, with the same DYS385a,b values of 11,11, but with a DYS391 value of 11, also exhibits its highest

match frequency in this area. It is possible that this haplotype originated in Southeastern Europe, and was spread across

the Mediterranean by Greek trading operations in Iberia, and then later to Britain with Roman expansion.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 11 11

Geographical Locale

%
Albania 3.96
Cape Town, South Africa [European] 2.00
Strasbourg, Alsace 1.01
Athens, Greece .99
El Salvador .83
Pyrenees, Spain .75
Valencia, Spain .71
New York City [Hispanic-American] .67
Sao Paulo, Brazil [European] .22
Stuttgart, Baden-Wurttemburg .22

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #28

Most of the matches for this haplotype fall in Spain and Portugal, so it most likely came to Britain with the prehistoric

Iberians many thousands of years ago. Nonetheless, the highest match frequency falls in Sweden, and the only locale with

multiple matches is Leipzig, with 3 hits. It is theoretically possible that the haplotype is of Germanic origin, and came

to Iberia with the Visigoths - and to Britain with the Anglo-Saxons or the Danes.

However, recent discussions on the DNA Genealogy message board have acknowledged that AMH-like haplotypes with

DYS390 values of 10 are common among Scots, which bolsters the argument that this haplotype is of native British origin

(i.e., "Iberian").

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 10 14

Geographical Locale

%
Skaraborg, Sweden 2.13
Buenos Aires, Argentina [European] 1.00
Pyrenees, Spain .75
Andulacia, Spain .61
Barcelona, Catalonia .45
Leipzig, Saxony .45
Central Portugal .43
Northern Portugal .32

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #29

Two of the three highest European match frequencies, and half the actual European matches, fall in England.

That is very unusual for any YHRD distribution, and could be construed to indicate a Native British (i.e., prehistoric

Iberian) origin - especially since the second highest European frequency falls in Spain.

However, DYS390 values of 23 are generally associated with such "North Sea Celtic" areas as Germany, Denmark

and the Netherlands, DYS385a,b values of 11,13 are associated with similar areas, and the match pattern below really

includes only one match in Iberia - while all the rest fall in England, Germany and Northern Italy. Considering all these

factors, this haplotype could easily just be Anglo-Saxon.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 23 10 13 13 11 13

Geographical Locale

%
Florida [European-American] 4.55
Birmingham, England 1.03
Buenos Aires, Argentina [European] 1.00
Pyrenees, Spain .75
London, England .70
Munster, Wesphalia .51
Tuscany, Italy .46
London, England [Afro-Caribbean] .34
Berlin, Brandenburg .18

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #30

The Cajuns are a mixture of French, Spanish, Creole and British American - and much of the French hails from

Saint-Onge and Poitou, which are close to Spain. The other matches here fall in Spain, Latin America and Ireland.

This haplotype most likely came to the British Isles with the prehistoric Iberians.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 12 29 23 10 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
Cajun [European-American] 4.55
Bogota, Colombia [European] .68
Ireland .66
Barcelona, Catalonia .45

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #31

Nearly all of the matches for the haplotype below fall among Iberian or Hispanic samples. Almost the only exceptions

are Ireland and London. This haplotype is clearly of Iberian origin, and has probably been in the British Isles since

prehistoric times.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 14 31 24 10 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
Northern Spain [Basque] 2.98
Reunion Island [Creole Metis] 2.17
Valencia, Spain 2.14
Connecticut [Hispanic-American] 1.92
Buenos Aires, Argentina [European] 1.00
Cantabria, Spain .99
Bogota, Colombia [European] .68
Ireland .66
Argentina [European] .65
Barcelona, Catalonia .45
Latium, Italy .45
London, England .35
Andulacia/Extremadura, Spain .26

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #32

This haplotype has a wide range, appearing all over Western Europe. It is nonetheless very interesting that five of the top

seven match frequencies fall in Italy. As a consequence, this is one of those rare R1b haplotypes that may actually have come

to Britain with the Romans - even though its broad range conversely suggests that it may simply be native British in origin.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 12 14

Geographical Locale

%
Pantellaria, Italy 4.76
Florida [European-American] 4.55
Alcamo, Italy 4.38
Maryland [European-American] 3.13
Trapani, Italy 3.03
Vasterbotten, Sweden 2.44
Madeira, Portugal 2.04
Bologna, Italy 1.96
Missouri [African-American] 1.79
Illinois [Hispanic-American] 1.49
Texas [African-American] 1.45
Liguria, Italy 1.23
Sao Paulo, Brazil [European] 1.12
Asturias, Spain 1.11
Santiago de Compostela, Spain .97
Lausanne, Switzerland .93
Zaragoza, Spain .83
Brussels, Belgium .80
Lyon, France .80
Sweden .74
Hamburg, Germany .73
USA [Hispanic-American] .73
Munich, Germany .71
Valencia, Spain .71
Bogota, Colombia .68
Dusseldorf, Germany .67
New York City [Hispanic-American] .67
Switzerland .67
Verona, Italy .65
Central Portugal .61
Northern Portugal .53
Andulacia/Extremadura, Spain .52
Reunion Island [Creole Blanc] .51
Greifswald, Germany .48
Stuttgart, Germany .40
USA [European-American] .39
London, England .35
Freiburg, Germany .23
Berlin, Germany .18
Argentina [European] .16

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #33

The match table below was prepared for a Border Reiver entry with DYS385a,b values of 8,14. This is the closest

haplotype we could find in YHRD. A single match falls in Denmark, which hints - and, indeed, only hints - of an

Anglo-Danish origin.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 24 10 13 13 9 14

Geographical Locale

%
Denmark .40

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #34

The R1b variation with DYS19/390/391/392/393 values of 14/23/10/13/13 is sometimes referred to as "Alpine",

and the top matches below are indeed in the vicinity of the Alps - Switzerland and Northern Italy. The top match

is among American Hispanics, and two other matches fall in England and Germany.

In keeping with the party line on R1b DYS390=23, we suggest that this haplotype is largely Germanic or Central

European in orientation, and may have come to Britain with either Anglo-Saxons or La Tene Celts.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 29 23 10 13 13 11 11

Geographical Locale

%
Texas [Hispanic-American] 1.35
Bern, Switzerland 1.10
Lombardy, Italy .55
London, England .35
Chemnitz, Germany .12

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #35

The haplotype below is found among Hispanic and Basque populations - but also in two Scandinavian samples.

It could be of prehistoric Iberian origin, or it may have come to Britain with Vikings of Paleolithic Western European

ancestry.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 14 30 24 10 13 13 11 13

Geographical Locale

%
Skaraborg, Sweden 2.27
Isla de Toas, Venezuela [European] 1.49
Northern Spain [Basque] .60
Rio Negro, Argentina [European] .45
Northern Norway .27
Chemnitz, Germany .12

R1b DYS391=10 Haplotype #36

The haplotype below exhibits its highest match frequencies in Southern Europe, and the Mexican match is probably Spanish in origin,

which is also Southern European. This haplotype may have come to Britain very early on from prehistoric Iberia - or later, during the

Roman period.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 12 29 24 10 13 13 12 14

Geographical Locale

%
Albania [Albanian] .90
Marche, Italy [Italian] .62
Chihuahua, Mexico [Mestizo] .45
Cologne, Germany [Germany] .14

R1b DYS391=9 Haplotype #1

The haplotype below is extremely uncommon, but is found in low levels in various countries in Western Europe.

It most likely of Celtic or prehistoric Iberian origin.

19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385a 385b
14 13 - 24 9 13 13 11 14

Geographical Locale

%
France .11
Spain .09
Austria .08
Belgium .07
Portugal .05
Netherlands .04