Walden Surname YDNA Results

Walden/Waldron/Wallen/Walling Surname Y-DNA Results

Results as of March 24, 2007
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Conclusions Summary

The over 50 results that have be returned are from 14 (possibly 15) different families.
The 14 families are not related.
The Y-DNA testing has provided the following information not available from the paper records

  1. Family R-A is NOT related to family R-D as suspected from the common first names and the location of Middlesex County Virginia circa 1750.

  2. Family R-D is related both the Henry Kidd family of Middlesex Co VA and to the William Kidd(died 1802) Caroline CO VA. but is NOT related to another Kidd line of Middlesex  County.

  3. W020 is NOT related to family R-B as documented in a family letter dated 1854.

  4. All of the branches of Family R-A are related.

  5. Family R-A does come from England per the match with W021, Joseph Waldron.

  6. The William ancestor of W020, Family R-A, and William ancestor of W023, Family R-F, cannot be the same man.

  7. All the branches of Family R-F are related.

  8. Family R-A is NOT related to Family R-F as suspected by tie to the same county of Virginia circa 1730.

  9. All the branches of Family R-B are probably related [An expansion of the 12 marker tests to 25 markers should be done.]

  10. The two branches of Family I-A are related.

  11. The two branches of Family I-M are related. This was “suspected” because the lived it the same county of TN.

  12. Family I-B is not related to Family R-C. This is a somewhat “unexpected” result as they all lived near each other circa 1840.

  13. X001 an adopted man is related to Family R-A. His birth fathers name may have been Waldron or Walden or a related name.

  14. E001 an adopted man is related to Family R-A. His birth fathers name may have been Waldron or Walden or a related name.

  15. W030 is not of the same male ancestry as the Walden families of the GA county where they lived. The current thinking is that he took his unmarried mother’s name.

  16. W049 is not related to any other Walden in the project. This is consistent with the family story that Featherston was adopted



  1. How is X001 an adopted man born in 1964, in Meridian, Mississippi related to Family R-A?  If you have any clues or advice you may contact Richard Norman at email address [email protected] 

  2. How is E001 an adopted man born about 1893 related to Family R-A?

  3. Is Family R-C, of North Georgia, related to Family R-B, the Long-hunter family? This is no longer an issue as the expanded DNA test show they are related.

  4. Is the 24 for 25 match between family R-F and E002 a random match or is there a real connection?   Even at  37 markers with  a genetic distance of 4 there is still a question.

The full results up to 48 markers can be seen here: WALDEN Y-DNA FULL RESULTS for results for 67 markers (or more)

visit the Family Tree DNA, FTDNA, web site WALDEN RESULTS at FTDNA

Walden/Waldon/Waldron/Walling/Wallen Surname Projects Y-DNA Results

Walden Y-DNA Results   3/24/2007 17:18  
ID Ancestor (Wife)/Son Date Location H*
  Family R-A REO UK/Switzerland/Germany  
W013 Samuel Walden Sr/Samuel Jr/Mitchell b. ca 1735 ?->Halifax Co NC R1b1
W020 William Walden (Sarah Hampton) b. ca 1730 ?->Halifax Co VA R1b1
W004 John B Walden (Martha Powell) b. 1790 Richmond, VA R1b1
W012 Moses Walden b. ca 1804 Jefferson Co GA R1b1
W025 Henry Walden b. ca 1760 VA->Spartanburg Co SC R1b1
W009 Richard Walden (Joanna Mnu) b. ca 1740 K and Q, VA R1b1
W032 James Walden (Hannah Hatch)/Emory b. 1784 VT[NY]->Licking Co OH R1b1
W033 James Walden (Hannah Hatch)/Emory b. 1784 VT[NY]->Licking Co OH R1b1
W021 Joseph Waldron (Elizabeth) b. ca 1716 Worcester, Eng. R1b
W048 Samuel Walden(Mary Dismukes)/Richard/John b. 1700 d.1779 d Halifax Co VA R1b1
W054 Wm. V Walden(Elizabeth Everette) b. 1817 d. after 1880 b. TN; Lived Rutherford Co TN R1b1
X001 Adopted b. 1964 Meridian, MS R1b1c
E001 Robert G Elliott b. 1891 Nebraska(father b. NE) R1b1
W037 Elijah Walden (Sally Walker) 1766-1856 VA->Woodford Co Ky ->IL R1b1
W018 Elijah Walden (Sally Walker) b. May 1766 VA R1b1
W051 John Walden(Sarah Hasting)/Ambrose/Richard T ca 1728 d. 1794 Caroline, VA R1b1
L001 Thomas Lee ca 1640-1709 Middlesex Co VA ###
W050 Elijah Walden(Gatsey Downs)/Isaac ca 1804- ca 1847 Jefferson/Warren Co GA;d. Warren Co R1b1
W046 Benjamin Walden (Baalza Lei)/John  b. 1766 Virginia R1b1
W005 Charles Walden(Mary Lea/Lee) b. before 1708  Caroline, VA R1b1
W053 Charles Walden/John/William/Francis Wm b.1782 d.Oct 1859 Wm b VA d Kanawha Co [W]VA R1b1
W047 William Walden  b. 1767 K & Q Co. VA -> Halifax Co VA R1b1
  FAMILY R-B REO British Isles  
W015 James Walden b. 1796 VA R1b
W056 Requested 2005 ? ? R1b
W019 Elisha Walling Sr (Mary Blevins) 1708-1783/5 Salem NJ -> VA R1b
W022 Abraham B Waldon (Martha) 1799-1861 SC->Tippah Co. MS R1b
W031 William Walden/Wm/David/David/Jeremiah b. 1702- [m. ca 1729] Bristol, Avon, England R1b
W040 Thomas Walling (Mary Abbott) ca 1627-1675 died Prov. RI R1b
W026 Wesley Walden (2nd Mary E. Stansbury) 1795-1797 SC->North Georgia R1b
W055 Elias Wallen 1790-1827 Putnam Co. Ohio R1b1c
W027 Emsley Walden (Elizabeth Waldrip) 1800-1805 SC->North Georgia R1b
W028 James Walden (Mahala Thurmon) 1808-1813 SC->North Georgia R1b
W044 James Walden (Mahala Thurmon) 1808-1813 SC->North Georgia R1b
W029 Daniel Walden (M. Harrison; 2nd Rachael) 1810-1812 SC->North Georgia R1b
W036 Elias Wallen 1776-1794 NY->Putnam Co OH R1b
  FAMILY R-D [email protected] Denmark/Iceland/UK  
W001 John Walden (Mary Collins)/Richard 1756-1835 Middlesex, VA->KY d.IN R1b
W002 John Walden (Mary Collins)/Richard 1756-1835 Middlesex, VA R1b
W007 John Walden (Mary Collins)/Richard 1756-1835 Middlesex, VA R1b
W008 John Walden (Mary Collins)/Richard 1756-1835 Middlesex, VA R1b
W035 John Walden (Mary Collins)/Henry 1756-1835 Middlesex, VA R1b
K001 Henry Kidd(Nancy Hill)/Samuel/John 1765 Caroline Co VA R1b
K008 William Kidd(Mary)/Philip 1729-1802 d. Caroline County VA R1b
  FAMILY R-E REO British Isles  
W014 John W Walden (Letty Eller) 1829 b.MS/IN/AR d.IL R1b
  FAMILY R-F [email protected] UK/Switzerland/Hungry  
W003 Elijah Walden Sr.(Martha Nowlin) b. ca 1775 VA->Madison Co KY R1b
W006 Jesse G Walden (Sally Pace) b. ca 1815 Georgia R1b
W024 William Walden (Polly Ingram) b. ca 1774 VA-> Garrard Co KY R1b
W038 Alexander Walden (Sarah Sparks) Nov 1748-1834 Goochland Co VA->Clark Co GA R1b
W023 Benjamin Walden (Hannah Cooly) 1757-1842 Culpepper,VA ->Madison,KY R1b
  Possibly Related to R-F   Genetic Distance of 4 or 5  
E002 James Elliott b. ca 1770 Cleenaghan, Fermanagh, Ulster R1b
E003 James Elliott b. 1775 Magheracross, N.Ireland ###
  FAMILY R-G REO British Isles  
W042 James Waldon (Joanna) ca1802-ca1860 SC-> Jasper Co. MO R1b
  FAMILY R-H [email protected] Europe  
W041 Hiram McDonold/Seaborn Walden son b. ca 1829 son b. Georgia R1b
  FAMILY R-J REO Europe  
W045 Elijah Walden (Mary Phillips) 1762-1833 Prince Wm. Co VA-> Adams Co OH R1b
  FAMILY R-K      
W049 Moses Walden/Featherston d. ca 1840 son b. Henry Co VA d. Patrick Co VA R1b
  FAMILY I-A REO British Isles  
W010 Coleman C Walden (M. McKinney;L. Price) 1821-1878 Kentucky I1a
W011 Nathan Walden Sr 1730 Conn.[?] I1a
  Family I-B REO Western Europe  
W030 Daniel W Walden (Nancy Jane Cain) b. Feb 1848 GA I1a
  FAMILY I-G      
W043 Unknown Walden after 1820 Campbell County TN Ix?
  FAMILY I-M REO England Germany  
W017 Anthony B Walden (Nancy Bowden) 1828-1860 TN->Coffee Co I1c
W034 Uriah Walden (Lucy Bowden) 1835- after 1880 TN->Coffee Co I1c
W052 Adopted mid 1900s USA I1c
  FAMILY J-A (Probably a "random" match) [email protected] Eastern Europe  
W016 Evan Walden (Jane) b. ca 1776 Cambell Co TN J2
D001 Abraham De Riviere b. ca 1660 Netherlands ->NY[by 1678] J2
W039 William Walden (Hulda) 1794-1871 KY-> Henderson Co. KY  

H* Haplogroup: All values in red are estimated. and  in  black SNP tested.

REO: This is my assessment of the matches at 12 or 25 markers to FTDNA's Recent Ethnic Origins database.

The full results up to 48 markers can be seen here: WALDEN Y-DNA FULL RESULTS for results for 67 markers (or more)

visit the Family Tree DNA, FTDNA, web site WALDEN RESULTS at FTDNA

If you need help with understanding some of the basics try Charles Kerchner's "Genetics & Genealogy - An Introduction" which can be found on web page at http://www.kerchner.com/dnainfo.htm


We are looking for European Walden men either living in Europe, or with a solid paper genealogy to Europe. Scholarships up to 100% of Lab costs are available to assist with Y-DNA testing. The amount of scholarship depends on each individual case. Please contact the project manager if you wish to apply for a scholarship. 



The men we have results from can be grouped into ten families as shown in the chart.


Family R-A (One family or two?)
W005, Charles Walden, born before 1708, is NOT the Charles, b. ca. 1724 and brother of John Walden of Caroline County VA. [But they may be related]
W020, William Walden is the father of Joseph Walden, who married Rachel Noe. [See Speculation below]

Family R-A has 13 members with 12 unknown connections.  Only W032 and W033 have a documented connection. It is really good that this family has the rare value of 7 for DYS 459a as the other values are R1b [aka AMH] modal. This value of 7 had occurred 21 times in 12,000 tests at FTDNA, and 12 of the 21 are this family. Thus the odds these families are related is in the order of 1,000 to 1 in favor of relatedness.


We have had two “adopted” men match Family R-A. While it is highly likely they are related we cannot give them a “clan:” name since there are so many known variations to Walden and Waldron.  One Waldron researcher has posted the ancestral name of Walderne for this line. 

X001 born 1964 in Meridian Mississippi. If you suspect you had Waldron or Walden family in the area about that time please contact Richard Norman at email address [email protected] 

E001 born circa 1893 in KS/OK or that area, Elliott could be an adoptive name or the name of his mother. He was good at avoiding the census taker. If you have any ideas on this connection please contact "Gordon Elliott" <[email protected]>  


Only W005 has a slightly different haplotype with matches on 33 of 37 markers.  Because of the key marker, DYS 459a, and the common surname this is a good YDNA connection.  


James Walden born 1784 in Vermont or New York (Vermont wasn't a state then, but was claimed by New York.); died 1860 in Licking County, Ohio.  The two Walden men, W032 and W033, are second cousins to each other; both men are great grandchildren of James' son Emory Osgood Walden, Sr.

Link to family tree: James Walden b. 1784


Joseph Waldron, W021, family tree can be viewed here http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/af/pedigree_view.asp?recid=1052256&familyid=0

Prior to these results there was no known connection between these families.

The Most Recent Common Ancestor for W005 and the others has a less than 2% chance of living circa 1750. The 50% point, the most likely time the MRCA lived, is the year 1100 AD.   T here is a 90% chance that the MRCA lived between the years 1750 AD and 100 AD.   Additional testing can be used to narrow the estimated time when the MRCA lived. The most productive additional test is to find one distant male cousin for W005. Another place to explore would be a connection to England. Since the MRCA for this family is likely to be in the years 1000 to 1400 [see “Speculation” below], plus the fact one of the ancestors is from Caroline County, Virginia, it is possible this family is related to [a highly suspect legend, in my view] Lord Walden Ravensworth Castle of England.  The legend being true, or not, does not affect the YDNA results. The connection to Waldron, W021, suggests this family name has deep roots in England.

The family of W020 is important because in 1854, Austin F Walden, of Woodford County, Kentucky, and later Missouri, wrote a letter to historian L. C. Draper [see transcription ] with information on his Walden family history.  Looking at ages and the information in the A. F. Walden letter it is still not clear as to who were the three brothers of Joseph who enlisted in the War of Independence. It is not possible for them be Samuel, W013, nor Richard, W009 as they are both too old to be sons of William.

It is also highly unlikely [less than one chance in a million by Y-DNA mutations] that William is a descendant of Elisha [W019]. Thus that part of the A. F. Walden letter is now highly suspect. This makes one wonder if the part about 3 brothers coming from England is true. That is unless the three brothers are Samuel, Richard, and William?  Maybe with time and more Y-DNA results we can find some answers.

Bottom Line
It will be difficult to find a paper trail match between the families of W005 and the others as the trails now stop circa 1750, and the MRCA was probably born well before 1750. However, there is a 2% chance of finding a connection in Virginia in the 1700s. How much effort in time and money should be put into searching the Virginia records for a 2% chance?  Only the families can answer this question.  Testing other male cousins will help narrow down the interval of when the MRCA lived.  Statistics are useful in telling us the chances before the fact, and different families can consider a 2% chance either good or bad. On the other side of the statistical coin, not only will a 2% chance happen, it MUST happen (2% of the time!) and the optimist will believe they are in that 2% until proven otherwise. A more detailed analysis of the results can be found at this web page W004 W005 analysis.  This analysis needs to be updated to include the current 37 marker results.


With the test results from W020 and the letter A F Walden wrote in 1854 one can speculate on a genealogy that fits the current facts.  Because YDNA cannot prove the exact relationship there are still many ways one can theorize on relationships. If we assume that the letter is mostly right then it is possible that Richard, Samuel and William are the three brothers arriving from England. If that is the case then they arrive in Virginia circa 1755.  I would also assume that William's father is a man named Elisha [or possibly Elijah] and that he would have been born circa 1700.  We KNOW from the DNA that William's father IS NOT RELATED to Elisha Walling/Walden, the long-hunter; so they must be two different men. It could be that there were two long-hunter men both born circa 1700 one named Elisha Walden and one named Elisha Walling. This could explain things and matches some of the data we have. If that were the case then time could connect the family stores in the 150 years from Elisha's birth to the time A. F. Walden wrote his family history in 1854.  We also have 2 missing brothers who enlisted with Joseph.  Plus we have the match of Joseph Waldron b. circa 1716 [probably in] Belbroughton, Worcestershire, England.
With all that in mind along with the YDNA results to date I have drafted a speculation genealogy.
You can view the diagram as a GIF image or as a Power Point Slide .

Family R-B [The Long Hunter Family]

W015, James Walden, is NOT the James that died in 1796 in Madison County KY. [We do really need a man to test from the Madison County Walden line]

The results for W015, W019, W022 and W031 are an exact match at 12 markers and there are another five matches within the FTDNA database. This is a case where Y-DNA testing can support [but, as usual, not confirm or prove] the paper trail of genealogical research.  There is a strong paper trail from W019 back to Elisha Wallen Sr.  The paper records from W015 to James Walden is solid and there is some evidence in the land purchase records that James is a great-grandson of Elisha Walling Sr. with this genealogy:
Elisha Walling Sr b. 1708 ca. -> Thomas Walling b. 1730 ca. -> Matthew/Mathias Walden b. 1770 ca. -> James Walden b. 1796
Thus the 12/12 match supports that research.  The Results for W040 show a match to the Long-hunter family and this is consistent with expectations as this family has a strong documented connection to the Long-hunter family.

 Elisha Walling Sr. is also the father of noted long-hunter Elisha Wallen/Walling who was associated with Daniel Boone.

At this time there is no known connection between W022 W031 and the other two families. Given the 12/12 match, and the surname Waldon/Walden, they must be related.


There are two members of Family R-B with only 12 marker results. I strongly recommend that one or both of these two men upgrade to at least 25 makers to really insure the connection to the others in the family.

Link to family tree W022: Abraham B. Waldon b. 1799 South Carolina
SMGF Genealogy W022: Isaac Waldon b. 1835 Laurens Co. South Carolina -> Isaac Benjamin Waldon b. 1876 Tippah Co Mississippi

Link to family tree W031: William Walden, born circa 1725 Bristol, Avon, England, grandfather of Jeremiah as posted by Harry Walden of Texas.
SMGF Genealogy W031: Jeremiah Walden b. 1831 Salem Connecticut ->Charles Hubbard Walden b. 1880 Deep River Connecticut

W026 through W029 were thought to be related. Results show that W030 [now recorded as I-C] is not related on the male side and there are two separate male ancestors in this Walden name. The expanded test that shows a 35 for 37 marker match between this group and those related to W031.  Thus this is one family with the common ancetor living prior to the birth of  Elias, W036, in 1776.
From the two marker difference the common ancestor was probably in the 1600.

The pretest thinking was that all five were descendants of the Daniel Walden, b. 1760-1770, he was enumerated in the 1830 census in Georgia. No documentation has been found to connect these men other than location and first names. The post test thinking is the four men in R-C are descendants of Daniel and W030 is a son of an unmarried Walden woman.

Also Y-DNA testing has uncovered a Wallen/Walden family connection. The Wallen family is from New York moving to Ohio and the Walden family is from South Carolina moving to North Georgia.


Family R-D
Link to family tree:   John Walden b. 1756 Middlesex Co VA

The interesting development in this family is an 80 marker close match between this families haplotype and that of a descendant of Henry Kidd b. 1765 with this family tree:
    Henry Kidd b. ca 1765 Caroline Col VA married Nancy Hill
          Samuel Henry Kidd b. ca. 1798 Fluvanna Co VA married Hannah Winston Tillman
                John Thomas Kidd b. 1831 Fluvanna Co. VA married Lucy Jane Tillman

There is a second 66 for 67 marker match between this family and a descendant of William Kidd (died 1802) of Caroline County VA.
John Walden b. 1756 testified in court in the 1830s that he was born in Middlesex Co. VA and orphaned as an infant, and raised by his brothers and sisters.
Another fact is that the one Y-DNA test we have from a descendant of the large Kidd family of Middlesex Co VA does not match the above two men. It is not even close.

Given we have John's Y-DNA matching two Kidd families and based on John being a orphan says that John's father being surnamed Kidd.

Men W001, W002, W007, W008 have exact matches and they have a Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA) that is known by standard genealogy and he was born in the 1790s. There are no surprises and no mutations of makers to deal with. The MRCA is a son of John Walden b. 1756 in VA.  Thus we now know the son's haplotype -- it is the same as the 4 men. There are 14 births in the genealogy so having zero mutations is expected.

The surprising result is that W009 is related to W004 and NOT to W001.  The family histories have ancestors of both W001 and W009 living in Middlesex County VA in the mid to late 1700s, while W004's family was living 70 miles west in Richmond VA.  In addition both W001 and W009 had women of the last name Collins marry a Walden man.

Because of the common names and family connections it is believed that John's mother was a Walden and a sister to Richard, W009, and when John was orphaned the Walden family took him in and raised him as a Walden.

Family R-E

Link to family tree:  John W Walden b. 1829, he lived in Indiana and Illinois
The family of W014 is unrelated to any of the other Walden families. The genetic distance to all other Walden families is in the range of 4,000 (or more) years.

Family R-F
Link to speculation chart for genealogy of Family R-F based on the current Y-DNA results. View as PowerPoint or GIF.
Link to the family tree for W023, Benjamin Walden b. 1757 Culpepper Co VA http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=j_walden&id=I27289
The Rev. John M Walden of this family is associated with Walden University (1869-1925).
Link to the family tree for W023, Elijah Walden Sr. b. ca. 1775 Virginia   http://www.genealogy.com/users/a/g/a/Nita-R-Agate-ID/

Men W003, W006, W024, W038 and W023 are members of a fourth family.  The match is complicated by having results from two testing companies. For those markers where there are 4 results W006, and W024 the common values.  Thus from the MRCA up to the men tested there is one know mutation in the W003 line and one in the W023 line. W006 matches W003 on 19 of 20 markers and 20th marker shows a one step difference from the common haplotype. W006 matches W023 on 24 of 25 markers and the 25 marker is a one step difference.
In this case there is a greater than 95% chance they are of the same family because of the common value 12 for DYS 391.  Since only about 2% of R1b men have a value of 12 this is a relatively rare value. And because both men have the Walden surname this increases the odds they are related.
Prior to these results there was a "suspected" relationship between W003, W038 and W024 and but there was no known connection between W006 and the others.
There is a 17% chance of seeing 2 mutations in the 21 births from the suspected MRCA to today. Thus the statistics of the situation is consistent with the idea that William of 1730 is the MRCA.

A note about the oldest known ancestor for W003: There is a feeling due to common location that the father of Elijah Walden Sr. is William Walden born about 1750 somewhere in Virginia Both Elijah and William where in Garrard County Kentucky in the late 1700s. In addition to Elijah there are William Jr., Nathan and James Walden in Garrard County.  Then in the early 1800s they moved.  Men, who are descendants from the various lines from William Jr., and Nathan are needed to support or refute this connection.  The cases of W009 and Family R-A above show that location and time and family first names that match do not always make the connection.
William, W024, born circa 1774 in Virginia, married Polly Ingram about 1800, he was administrator on, James, his fathers will in Garrard County. They moved to Pulaski Co. KY in 1807. He died there in 1814.

The puzzeling question for this family is the surprining 24 for 25 marker match with E002. The ancestor for E002 is James Elliott, b. 1770, in Ulster, married to Margaret Toomath 27 April 1807.  This match could either be just a random match or there could be a connection back in Scotland in the 1400s.   The expansion of E002 to 37 makers shows 3 more mismatches to the Walden Family R-F.  Thus with a genetic distance of 4 on 37 markers they must have a common ancestor. It is just a question of how far back this common ancestor lived and it could have been 1000 years ago.  One of the issues for this Elliott line is to find a connection, if there is one, from James Elliott, b. 1770, to the Elliotts of Scotland in the 1400s.

Families R-G, R-H, R-J, R-K

These four families are unique to the project and 3 have found no matches. R-M, Seaborn Walden, has matched a McDonold family and this support the long suspected connection to Hiram McDonald.

Family I-A

The marker values for W010 and W011 match on 25 of 25 markers. Thus these two men have a common ancestor. This relationship was not known before this test and the two men are now looking for paper evidence of the connection.  This family is not related to the other families.  In fact they have an estimated haplogroup I1a. Based on the difference in Y values, if Family I-A and Family R-F have an MRCA, he would have lived more than 10,000 YBP.  Haplogroup I is sometimes called the "Viking" group but that is somewhat over stating the situation since I is found most European populations to some degree.

Family I-B

W030 was thought to be related to Family R-C. The current thinking is that he took his unmarried mother’s name. The male ancestor to W030 is thought [speculation] to be the son of a 23 year old Walden woman living with Parthina Walden in 1850.

Family I-G

W043, is most likely a case of an unrecorded adoption in the R-A family of Campbell Co TN.

Family I-M

The results for W017 and W034 match 12 for 12 and are unique in the Walden surname project, and have no matches within the FTDNA database at 25 markers and only one at 12 markers. The two families tested have long suspected they are related but until the Y-DNA results were returned there was no known link. There is a 22/25 match, genetic distance of 3 with the Goode family. Further testing to 37 markers resulted in a 26/37 and a genetic distance of 16 [using the difference rule] or a distance of 26 [using the difference squared rule.]  In other words they are not related. Because this change from 3 to 16 is “unexpected” FTDNA will retest the 26-37 makers to insure there are no mistakes.  The haplogroup for this family is I1c.

Family J-A

The results for W016 and D001 are “interesting.” Finding a match this close with such a rare haplotype is astounding.  Even more surprising is the estimated haplogroup of J2.  Haplogroup J2 started in the northern portion of the Fertile Crescent. The family of W016 believes their ancestry is from England. Since haplogroup J2 is near 0% in England this J2 result is unexpected. Haplogroup J2 has been found in a few English communities at the level of 1.5%.  These two must have a common ancestor sometime before 1600.

Deep Roots Ancestry

The haplogroup given in the results table can give one an idea of where in the world the paternal line lived many thousands of years ago.
About 12,000 years ago the male ancestor for everyone of type R1b lived in what is now Northern Spain, and the male ancestor for haplogroup I lived in what is now Northern Greece.  The DNA testing company DNA Heritage has a map showing this (Click here.)  Look for the second map on the page.

The R1b haplotype has a strong tie to the Celtic peoples of  Europe about 5,000 years ago. Most of Europe is R1b with the percentage being highest at 100% in places in the west (Ireland, Wales) and lower to the east (Turkey) and one question is how did it get that way?  This web site on the Welsh shows the movement of Celtic people 5,000 to 2,000 YBP.

For connections in the more recent past one can look for world wide matches in the Y-STR Haplotype Reference Database created by Sascha Willuweit and Lutz Roewer using their "Worldwide Search" function. We do not know when these connections might have been but it is most likely they were 1,000 to 4,000 years ago. While there is NO guarantee that your ancestor ever lived in the places, where there is a match it is possible there is a connection to that region of the world. In November of 2003 the matches for Families R-A, R-B, and R-D [Haplogroup R1b] all cluster in the area of what is now Germany with a few from Italy to England and Spain to Norway. Family R-E is somewhat rare in that it has just one match in the Y-STR database and that is from Norway.  The matches for Family I-A [Haplogroup I] were found in what is now Norway, Sweden and Belgium.

Inter Family MRCA

We can calculate the approximate time when the families A, D and E had an MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor.)

We do this using the statistics of the mutation rate for the markers of  one change every 500 chances.
Since we have 35 markers we would expect about one change to be seen every 14 births (500 chances divided by 35 markers per birth).
But since we have one birth down each side of the family tree from the MRCA we should see one change every 7 generations, or about every 175 years.  It is a bit more complicated than that because a marker could change, then change back, and we would not see the difference, but this gives the idea.

Using the statistical formulas I calculated the time to MRCA for the three families. The results are given in YBP ( Years Before Present.)

Approximate time to MRCA

John of Middlesex : John of Richmond    10 step change in 35 markers MRCA is 2000 YBP
John of Middlesex : Elijah/Jesse          14 step change in 35 markers MRCA is 2500 YBP
John of Richmond  : Elijah/Jesse          11 step change in 35 markers MRCA is 2100 YBP

These estimates are plus or minus about 800 years.
Clearly this is before surnames started and thus there is no family relationship.

Haplogroup and Haplotype

From Family Tree DNA
"A Haplogroup is defined as all the male descendants of
the single person who first showed a SNP mutation. A SNP mutation identifies a group who had a common ancestor far back in time, since SNP's rarely mutate. Each member of a Haplogroup would have the same SNP mutation as the common ancestor. These mutations are extremely rare, and identify a group of people over a period of tens of thousands of years."  Haplogroup is determined by testing for UEPs (Unique Event Polymorphism) or SNP mutation.  UEPs are really rare, so rare that each one is considered to have happened only once in all of human history. Haplotype is determined by the Y-DNA test discussed here. A man's Haplotype is the set of numbers from the Y-DNA test.  While there is a strong relationship from Y-DNA Haplotype to UEP(SNP) Haplogroup it is not 100%.  All the men in the Walden Project, tested by Family Tree DNA, have an ESTIMATED haplogroup. Most of the men are in haplogroup R1b, the most popular of Europe.  W010, W011and W017 have an ESTIMATED haplogroup of I.  Haplogroup I is found in northwestern Europe and is sometimes called the "Viking" haplogroup. And W016 is of haplogroup J2, rare in England but still found there.

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Copyright © 2002-2007 John S. Walden

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