Saher de Quincey, Earl of Winchester

QUINCY

1. SAER de Quincy

m. MATILDA de SENLIS (m.1. Robert Fitz Richard de Clare, d. 1140)- stepdaughter of King David I by Maud of Northumbria. Daughter of Simon de Senlis, Earl of Huntingdon.(4)
d.c.1157

The de Quincy family originated from Cuinchy in Bethune and came to England after the Conquest.

Site of Long Buckby Castle- Built by Saher de Quincy

Saer was the lord of Long Buckby in Northamptonshire c. 1125 as a tenant of Anselm de Chokes.(1) He is mentioned in the Pipe Rolls for 1157.(2) Saher donated land to Dunmow Priory for the soul of his son Saher by an undated charter which was witnessed by "Richardus, et Quincy".(3)

Dunmow Priory- S. Lacey, 1832

Issue-

  • I. Saer- m. Asceline Peverel (m.1. Geoffrey de Waterville)
  • 2II. ROBERT- m.1. ORABILIS/ARABELLA- separated, (m.2. Morgund, Earl of Mar, m.3. Adam of Fife, d. before 30 June 1203), 2. Eva, d. 1204
  • III. Judith- m. Robert Fitz Lancelin

    Ref:

    (1) "The Complete Peerage"- Vol. XII, pt. 2, p. 745; Domesday Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166. II. Pipe Rolls to Cart� Baronum- Katherine Keats-Rohan, Boydell Press, 2002- p. 652
    (2) The Great Rolls of the Pipe for the second, third and fourth years of the reign of King Henry II 1155-1158- J. Hunter, London, 1844- 4 Henry II, Northamptonshire- p. 142
    (3) Dugdale's "Monasticon VI"- Dunmow Priory, Essex- II, p. 148
    (4) Ibid- "Historia Fundationis necnon Fundatorum et Benefactorum eiusdem Domus"- I, p. 147


    2II. ROBERT (SAER 1)

    m.1. ORABILIS/ARABELLA- separated, (m.2. Morgund, Earl of Mar, m.3. Adam of Fife, d. before 30 June 1203)- d. of Nes of Mar
    2. Eva
    d. 1204

    Robert doesn't seem to have inherited any English lands from his father so pursued a military career in Scotland and was a knight in the service of his cousin King William the Lion from c.1160. His marriage to Orabilis, c.1170, brought him the lordship of Leuchars, Fife. His marriage to Margaret brought him additional prominence in England as she was the younger sister of Robert de Beaumont, Earl of Leicester and her other brother was Roger de Beaumont, Bishop of St. Andrews. When Robert died in 1204 Margaret and her elder sister were co-heiresses of the earldom. The estate was divided and after the final division was ratified in 1207 Saher was made Earl of Winchester.

    Robert went on the Crusade in 1190 with Richard the Lionhearted and was involved in the capture of Antioch in July 1191.(1)

    The Siege of Antioch

    By an undated charter Nes, son of William, and Orabilis, his heir, donated the church of Losresc to St. Andrew's priory.(2) In another undated charter Orabilis, countess of Mar, daughter of Nes, confirmed the above donation of the church of Lochres made by her father to St. Andrew's priory.(3) Another confirmation of this donation is witnessed by Orabilis as the wife of Adam, son of Duncan, earl of Fife.(4) She donated "Davach ictar Hathyn" to St. Andrew's by another undated charter.(5) Pope Innocent III confirmed the donation to Inchaffray Abbey of land in Gask by Orabilis, mother of "Seer de Quinci" 30 June 1203.(6) Orabilis must have died before Robert as in an undated charter her son Saher de Quincy confirmed the donation of Davac Ichthar Hathyn to St. Andrew's Priory made by his mother and was witnessed by his father Robert de Quincy.(7)

    Issue-

  • 3I. SAHER- m. MARGARET de BEAUMONT, d. 3 Nov. 1219 Damietta

    Ref:

    (1) "The Complete Peerage"- Vol. XII, pt. 2, p. 747
    (2) Liber Cartarum Prioratus Sancti Andree in Scotia- Bannatyne Club, Edinburgh, 1841- p. 245
    (3) Ibid- p. 287
    (4) Ibid
    (5) Ibid- p. 290
    (6) Charters, Bulls and other documents relating to the Abbey of Inchaffray- W.A. Lindsay, D. Dowden, J.M. Thomson, Eds., Scottish History Society, Edinburgh, 1907- Vol. LVI, IX, p. 6
    (7) Liber Cartarum Prioratus Sancti Andree in Scotia- Bannatyne Club, Edinburgh, 1841- p. 291


    3I. SAHER de QUINCEY (SAER 1, ROBERT 2)

    m. MARGARET de BEAUMONT
    d. 3 Nov. 1219 Damietta, bur. Acre

    Saher lived in Scotland when young and is absent from English records. After his uncle Saer's death without heirs, Saher inherited his estate. He is first mentioned in the service of King Richard the Lionhearted in Normandy in 1197 and on 18 Aug. 1199 he was a witness to an agreement between King John and the Comte de Boulogne at Chateau Gaillard. He was appointed 30 Oct. 1200 to conduct King William the Lion to a meeting with King John.

    Saher's rise to prominence was probably due to his family connections. He had a close relationship with his cousin, Robert FitzWalter. The two of them were co-commanders of the garrison at Vaudreuil, Normandy in 1203. They surrendered the castle without a fight to King Philip II thus fatally weaknening England's position in that part of France. Popular opinion at the time seems to have blamed them for the surrender, however, there is a royal writ which states that the castle was given up by the command of King John. Saher and Robert had to endure considerable humiliation while prisoners of the French and had to pay heavy ransoms to be released. They returned to England by 5 May 1204.

    By his marriage to Margaret he obtained the large estates of Leicester and Grandmesnil which he took possession of 30 Mar. 1205 leading to his becoming Earl of Winchester which was confirmed by the king in 1207, Saher receiving a charter of �10 per year.

    Saher served as justice in several counties, and at the Exchequer from 1211 to 1213. He travelled on the King's business to Scotland in Mar. 1209, Ireland in 1210, and to Germany as ambassador to Emperor Otto IV in 1212.

    Saher then turned his military talents towards Scotland and in 1211-2 he commanded a hundred knights and a hundred serjeants in King William the Lion's campaign against the MacWilliam rebels.

    In 1215 when the rebellion of the barons started Robert FitzWalter became a commander and Saher joined him and acted as one of the main negotiators with King John. Robert and Saher were two of the twenty-five guarantors of the Magna Carta and was excommunicated by the Pope in Dec. 1215. The two of them fought against King John in the troubles that followed the signing of Magna Carta and they travelled to France to invite Prince Louis to take the throne of England. His lands were seized by King John and granted to William Marshal. They were the most committed supporters of Prince Louis and remained against King John and the infant Henry III. His defeat and capture on 20 May 1217 at Lincoln made way for Henry III to take the throne and he subsequently swore allegience to the king in Sept. 1217 and his lands were restored 29 Sept. 1217.

    In Jan. 1219 Saher sent a ship from Galway to collect supplies at Bristol for the journey to Jerusalem. He then left on the Fifth Crusade which was in the process of besieging Damietta. While there he fell sick and died and was buried in Acre and his heart was brought back and buried at Garendon Abbey, near Loughborough.(4)

    Siege of Damietta- Bibliotheque Nationale de France

    Before leaving on the crusade Saher de Quincy, Earl of Winchester, donated the church of Gask to Inchaffray Abbey for the souls of his father Robert de Quency, his mother Orable, his first born son Robert de Quincy and his wife Margaret.(1) In an undated charter Saher donated the lands of Duglyn to Cambuskenneth Priory with the consent of his son Robert.(2) Also prior to going to the Holy Land Saher donated the revenue from his mill in Lochres to St. Andrew's Priory with the consent of his son Roger.(3) King Edward I granted a charter confirming the donations to Garendon Abbey by Margaret, countesss of Winchester, sister of Robert, Earl of Leicester.(5)

    Issue-

  • I. Loretta- m. William de Valoignes of Panmure
  • II. Arabella/Orabilis- m. Richard Harcourt
  • III. Robert- m. Hawise de Chester (d. before 3 Mar. 1243), Countess of Lincoln, d. 1217
  • 4IV. ROGER- m. HELEN MacDONALD
  • V. Robert- m. Helen (m.1. John "the Scot", Earl of Huntingdon & Chester), d. of Prince Llywelyn the Great, d. 1257
  • VI. Hawise- m. after 11 Feb. 1223, Hugh de Vere, Earl of Oxford (d. before 23 Dec. 1263, bur. Earl's Colne), d. after 1263, bur. Ear's Colne
  • VII. John-

    Ref:

    (1) Charters, Bulls and other documents relating to the Abbey of Inchaffray- W.A. Lindsay, D. Dowden, J.M. Thomson, Eds., Scottish History Society, Edinburgh, 1907- Vol. LVI, IV A, p. 157
    (2) Registrum Monasterii S. Marie de Cambuskenneth- W. Fraser, Edinburgh, 1872- 70, p. 92
    (3) Liber Cartarum Prioratus Sancti Andree in Scotia- Bannatyne Club, Edinburgh, 1841- p. 255
    (4) "The Complete Peerage"- Vol. XII, pt. 2, pp. 748-50; also Annales Prioratus de Dunstaplia, Annales Monasterii de Bermundeseia- H.R. Luard, Ed., in "Annales Monastici", London, 1866- Vol. III, pp. 56, 60; Radulphi de Coggeshall Chronicon Anglicanum- J. Stevenson, London, 1875- p. 188
    (5) Dugdale's "Monasticon V"- Garendon Abbey, Leicestershire- II, p. 331


    4I. ROGER (SAER 1, ROBERT 2, SAHER 3)

    m.1. HELEN MacDONALD (d. 1245)- d. of Alan, Lord of Galloway (5)
    2. c.1250 Maud de Bohun (m.1. Anselm Marshal, Earl of Pembroke, d. 20 Oct. 1252 Groby, Lincoln, bur. Brackley)- d. of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford
    3. Eleanor de Ferrers (m.1. William de Vaux, 3. Roger de Leyburn, d. before 20 Oct. 1274, bur. Leeds Priory)- daughter of William de Ferrers, Earl of Derby
    d. 25 Apr. 1264, bur. Brackley

    Roger probably went on the Fifth Crusade with his father in 1219. After the death of his father there and of his elder brother a few years previously, Roger inherited the family titles and properties. He did not take possession of his father's lands until Feb. 1221 probably because he was on the Crusade until then. He did not become earl until after his mother's death in 1235.

    In 1220 Roger confirmed donations of land in Gask where the men of his father, Earl of Winchester, pastured animals, to Inchaffray Abbey.(1) By an undated charter Roger donated his forest of Gleddiswood to Dryburgh monastery for the souls of himself, his wife Eleanor, Alan de Galwythya and his wife, Roger's daughter, Helene.(3) Roger de Quincy, Constable of Scotland and Elena, his wife, daughter of Alan of Galway, recognised the rights of the church of Glasgow to the village of Edeluestune.(6)

    Helen was the oldest daughter and a co-heiress of Alan, Lord of Galloway and after Alan's death, Roger became Constable of Scotland and obtained one-third of the lordship of Galloway.(2) The Galwegians were not happy with the division of their land and rebelled, led by Gille Ruadh. King Alexander suppressed the rebellion and Roger proved a strict ruler of his territory causing the Galwegians to revolt again in 1247. Roger was besieged in his castle and fought his way out and returned with help from King Alexander again who suppressed this rebellion as well.

    Roger was part of the rebellion in opposition to King Henry III, however, he did fight with Henry against the Welsh.

    A writ from 48 Henry III after the death of Roger de Quency, earl of Winchester, states that he died on the day of St. Mark the Evangelist and names Henry de Lascy, age 14, on the day of Epiphany next as his heir. (4) On 25 Oct. 1274 King Edward I ordered the escheator of Ireland to take all the lands of the deceased Eleanor, widow of Roger de Quincy, earl of Winchester, into the king's hands.(7)

    Seal of Roger de Quincy

    Issue- All children by Helen.

  • I. Margaret- m. William de Ferrers, Earl of Derby and became the step-mother to her own step-mother!
  • 5II. ELIZABETH- m. ALEXANDER COMYN, Earl of Buchan (d. before 6 Apr. 1290)
  • III. Helen- m. Sir Alan la Zouche of Ashby (killed in battle 10 Aug. 1270 London), d. before 20 Aug. 1296

    Ref:

    (1) Charters, Bulls and other documents relating to the Abbey of Inchaffray- W.A. Lindsay, D. Dowden, J.M. Thomson, Eds., Scottish History Society, Edinburgh, 1907- Vol. XLII, p. 36
    (2) Registrum Episcopatus Glasguensis- C. Innes, Edinburgh, 1843- Vol. I, 168, p. 138
    (3) Liber S. Marie de Dryburgh: Registrum Cartarum Abbacie Premonstratensis de Dryburgh- Bannatyne Club, Edinburgh, 1847- 138, p. 99
    (4) Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem- H.C. Maxwell Lyte, London, 1904- Vol. I, Henry III, 587, p. 187
    (5) Liber Pluscardensis, Historians of Scotland Vol. VII- F. J. H. Skene, Edinburgh, 1877- Vol. I, Book VII, CX, p. 73
    (6) Registrum Episcopatus Glasguensis- C. Innes, Edinburgh, 1843- Tome I, 167, p. 138
    (7) Calendar of Documents relating to Scotland preserved in the Public Record Office- J. Bain, Scottish Record Office, 1884- Vol. II, 32, p. 8

    Victoria County History, Oxfordshire- vol. 8, p. 58
    Roger de Quincy, Second Earl of Winchester- William Hunt, in the "Dictionary of National Biography"- Vol. 47 (1896), p. 115
    Roger de Quincy- Charles Cawley, in "Medieval Lands: A Prosopography of Medieval European Noble and Royal Families"
    An Anglo-Scottish Baron of the Thirteenth Century: The Actes of Roger de Quincy, Earl of Winchester and Constable of Scotland- Grant G. Simpson, PhD thesis, Edinburgh, 1963


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