GREEN ANCESTRY

This page will be used to document the known details of the family descended from John Green.

I initially thought that John was born around 1816 in Ireland but this man turned out to be an Excise Officer at Isdulas, Abergele in the Parish of St Asaph, at the time of 1841 Census. Our John Green was the son of William and Sarah Green who lived at Rhosllanerchrugog. John was christened at St Mary's Church, Ruabon on 5th February 1813.

William was a collier who married Sarah Griffith on 14th September 1801 at St Mary's Church. Both were residing in Ruabon Parish. The witnesses were Richard Parry and Edward Jones. William was probably the son of John and Sarah Green, and he was christened on 31st January 1779 at St Mary's. Sarah is likely to be the daughter of Richard and Elizabeth Griffith(s) of Morton Above, who was christened on 13th September 1778 also at St Mary's.

John married a local girl called Mary Savage (born 1815), by Banns, at St Mary�s Parish Church in Ruabon on 22nd December 1838. John's occupation was recorded as Collier, as was that of his father William. Both Bride and Groom were recorded as "residing at Morton Above" which means Rhosllanerchrugog. The Bride's father was not named on her marriage certificate, but her christening at st Giles church, Wrexham on 9th February 1816 names her father as Richard Stubbs of Chester and her mother as Jane Savage of Bersham. Jane was the daughter of James Savage and Anne Williams of Bersham, whose other children were Robert, Anne and Catherine. The Savage family later moved from Bersham to live in Rhosllannerchrugog, and Robert's descendants live in Rhos and further afield. The world famous Baritone singer James Sauvage (1849-1922) and footballer Robbie Savage are among the descendants of Robert Savage.

I have found this christening at St Giles Church, Wrexham on 21 May 1837:
James SAVAGE (GREEN) base s/o John GREEN (collier) of Rhos & Mary SAVAGE, Wrexham
so it seems their first child was born out of wedlock. This child died in 1841 according to this burial entry in the Parish Register:
18 Sept 1841 James Green, Morton Above. Infant

John and Mary named their next child James also. The boys were probably named after Mary's Grandfather James Savage.

John and Mary had 5 other children:


When John died on 24th August 1894, he was aged 78, and living at Campbell St, Rhos. His occupation was given as Carrier on the Probate record, and his effects were valued at �10. Probate was granted to his son James, a Collier, on 9th October 1894.

James Green

James was a 24-year old collier when he married Ann Edwards at St Mary's Church, Ruabon on 2nd February 1867. Each did not sign the register but made their mark. The witnesses were Benjamin Jones and Sarah Savage. John's occupation was "Jagger" and Ann's father David Edwards was a Coker.

James and Ann also had 5 children:

At the time of the 1881 census, James Green and his brother John, were living with their families at 2 properties in Love Lane, Ruabon (probably Rhos), Denbighshire.

Their parents John and Mary were at number 8, while James was living at 4 Love Lane with his wife Ann, 3 sons, and 2 daughters. A young grandson, William, was staying with John and Mary, at least on census night.
John II was living at number 6 Love Lane with his wife Mary Ann (born in Ponciau around 1857), and young daughters Mary Ellen and Sarah.

William Green age 30 and his wife Sarah were living at 8 Hall Street with their children: 3 year old Robert Alun and 1 year old Mary Elizabeth. William�s occupation was recorded as collier and butcher.

In 1891 John and Mary were living in Campbell Street, with John still working, now as a coal carrier. Head of the next household was 54 year old coal miner Robert Hannaby, his wife Margaret, their 4 children, and a young Grandson. This was very close to Love Lane where John and Mary lived a decade earlier. James and Anne were still at Love Lane, living in 4 rooms with Ioan age 20 Coal Miner, Mary Ann age 18, David age 15 Coal Miner, and Elizabeth age 13 Scholar. To add to the crowded conditions in the house, there were 2 boarders: Coal miners William Edwards age 26 and John Ellis age 18.

In the 1901 census, James�s occupation is given as a Coal Hewer and his son David is recorded as a Coal Mine Hewer. They were living in the parish of Rhosllanerchrhugog, which is also recorded as their place of birth.

Following the 1904 Welsh Revival, James was known for his religious convictions. With his long white hair and beard he looked like an Old Testament Prophet! He could be seen standing on the streets of Rhos, spreading the Good Word to passers-by. Of course this was not unusual at that time as many Welsh people were affected by the 1904 Revival. The Revival had a profound impact on Rhos, with Prayer meetings held underground in the coalmines, processions of converts, family feuds and disputes were resolved, and temperance cause was strengthened. The famous bardic line Beibl a Rhaw i Bobl y Rhos (English: a Bible and a Spade for the People of Rhos) reflects the importance of both coal-mining and the chapels on the village's culture and heritage.

On 4th March 1905 the Rhos Herald published the numbers of converts in each of the Churches in the area, which totalled 2,267 people. The 1901 census gave the population of Rhos as 9,414, and a 1905 Royal Commission report said that there were 21 places of worship. On 20th March an afternoon prayer meeting was attended by many, with large numbers being overcome, and the entire congregation in tears.

On 7th December an all-day meeting in Rhos �seemed to be prayer from first to last; the form varied - speech, song, supplication; but it was all prayer.� The same reporter wrote of the conversion of a notoriously godless character: �They saw the face, stained with perspiration and tears, and at the first glance, more terrifying than usual; but there was a gleam of new life upon it.
�None of you will ever know�, he began, in a voice part shout, part sob, �what I have passed through tonight. I have wept a pool of tears where I have been sitting, and they were the gladdest tears I ever knew. The agony before that!- my head seemed to swell and swell, as if it would at last burst. But it grew easier when the tears came. You all know me; you know for whom I have fought; but I am changing sides tonight, to fight on the side of Jesus�.� His conversion proved genuine, and in time all thirteen of the reckless gang which he had led in sin were brought to Christ.

Ioan Green

James and Ann's eldest son was Ioan (or John) born in 1870. He married Annie Jones in 1898. Their children were:

Fanny Green
  Fanny was the Grandmother of Rosemarie Frankland, the UK's first Miss World.

Rosemarie was the daughter of Fanny's daughter Nancy and was born in Rhosllanerchrugog on 1st February 1943. As a child she moved to live in Lancashire but was a frequent visitor at the home of her Grandmother.

Rosemarie won the titles of Miss Wales and Miss United Kingdom and was runner-up at Miss Universe in 1961. When Rosemarie won the Miss World competition in 1961, Bob Hope said that she was the most beautiful girl he had ever seen.

Rosemarie appeared in films with Bob Hope and the Beatles before marrying and moving to live in Los Angeles where her daughter still lives. Sadly Rosemarie died at the age of 57 on 2nd December 2000 and her ashes were interred in Rhos Cemetery.

David Green 1875-1939

  James and Ann's second son David was born in 1875, and he married Mary Ann Jones. They had 4 daughters and 2 sons:

* Ann born 1898, married William Hughes
* Sarah born 1899, married James Walker
* Brynley born 1901, married Ada Morgan
* Doris Edith born 1903, married Harold A Wood
* Polly (Mary) married Eddie Williams in 1936
* Edward born 1908

In 1901 David was living at 5 Hope Street with his wife Mary Ann and their children Ann age 3, sarah age 1, and Brynley a 1 month old baby. David worked in the mining industry and was well-known in the area as a life-saver. He rescued at least one person from a pool near Llwyneinion (Einion's Grove), off Hall Lane in Rhos, and the local council wrote to the Royal Humane Society to recommend him for a medal for bravery. We know that he was awarded an illuminated scroll around 1936, and this is still in the hands of his descendants in the Wrexham area. Members of the Rhos Community contributed to a collection to thank David for his bravery and this money paid for a holiday to Blackpool for a week.

Here is the photograph and text from a newspaper article reporting the local community's desire to thank David Green.

David Green
 

TO RECOGNISE BRAVERY

MR D. GREEN

who has saved many lives from drowning

A Committee meeting was held at the British Legon Club on Monday night to further the scheme of making a presentation to Mr David Green, Gerddi' Rhos in recognition of his gallantry in saving life from drowning. The meeting, which was convened by Mr Tom Rowlands, was well attended and much enthusiasm for the project was shown. Among those who spoke were Councillor David Edward, Councillor Ellis Parry; Councillor J.W.Williams; Parish Councillors J.Roberts; T Bala Davies; T Charles;

It was decided to circularise the parish, giving particulars of the scheme, and on an appointed day collectors would call at the houses.

A letter was read from the clerk of the Parish Council stating that most probably the Council would apply to the Royal Humane Society for a medal. The Parish was divided into three territories, and sub-committees for each were elected. Mr Jim Smith was entrusted with the duty of approaching, the Wrexham Transport Workers aid.
Rhosites are spread all over the world overseas as well as at home. Should any of them wish to contribute to the proposed testimonial Mr T Rowlands the organizer, Church St., would be very glad to hear from them.

David passed away in 1939.



David and Mary Ann�s first child was Ann and she lived in Rhosllanerchrugog. Ann married William Hughes in a civil service at Wrexham in 1924, and they had 2 children. Their daughter Betty (Elizabeth) studied to qualify as a solicitor through working as an articled clerk, which would have been a real achievement, especially for a woman, in her generation. Until the 1919 Sexual Disqualification (removal) act, women were not even permitted to become Solicitors or Barristers at all. The first female solicitor qualified in 1923 but even as recently as 1967 only 619 women, or 2.7% of the profession, held valid practising certificates. By 2006 there were over 47,000 female Solicitors listed on the Roll of Solicitors (41% of all Solicitors and 57% of newly qualified Solicitors).

Brynley Green

bryn
  David's eldest son Brynley was also a miner and worked at the Hafod Colliery, which was originally called the Ruabon New Colliery when it opened in the 1860s. At its peak it employed around 2000 workers, producing gas, household, coking and steam coal. During the early 1930s Hafod produced 570,00 tons of coal per year, but then declined until it was closed by the National Coal Board on 11th Maarch 1968.

Brynley was mentioned several times in a Miners discipline book which recorded minor misdeeds by Hafod miners in the early 1900s. A former fitter at Hafod found the book wedged between the cabin and the rockface when he was dismantling the cabin. His "crimes" were riding the pit ponies which is amusing when you hear that our memories of him include watching him study the "form" in the newspaper each morning, before going to the betting shop in Cefn Mawr to place a small bet. Quite often he would go back later to collect his equally small winnings! I spent many happy hours with him watching the horse racing on TV in the 1960s, after we watched "Andy Pandy" or "Woodentops" of course!

Brynley married Ada Morgan and they had 4 sons and a daughter. They lived in the village of Cefn Mawr, near Ruabon, Wrexham. Brynley had an interest in the outdoors and was well-known in the village as a local poacher. He made his own long nets, which were set in the local Wynnstay park to catch rabbits. Local people frequently claimed with some gratitude and admiration that there were many families who were saved from starvation during the 1930s and the second world war because of the timely appearance of a fresh rabbit! When Brynley died in 1982, the family marked the occasion by a rabbit pot roast, cooked in the oven with a carrot and onion, of course! He was cremated at Pentrebychan crematorium, Rhostyllen, Wrexham, and his ashes were scattered there in Daffodil Meadow, which was another of his former poaching haunts!

Pit Ponies

pony
  Pony boys c 1900
  � Copyright Fionn Taylor and licensed for reuse under Creative Commons Licence

The Coal Mines Regulation Act of 1887 was the first national legislation to protect horses working underground. It provided for mines inspectors to investigate the treatment of horses and whether haulageway roofs were high enough to prevent injury to the horses' backs. Unfortunately injuries to pit ponies were common, and frequently they had to be put down because of broken legs and their feet getting stuck or damaged in the points in the tub rails.

Protest groups such as the National Equine Defence League put pressure on the government resulting in a Royal Commission Report in 1911. This resulted in major protective legislation. The Pit Ponies' Charter brought in mandatory rules:-

Many people believed that pit ponies eventually went blind underground but in fact use of blind ponies was forbidden by law. Unfortunately some ponies did go blind but from old age or from injury to their eyes before the introduction of effective leather headgear with eye protection. In 1949 and 1956 further legislation was introduced to regulate working conditions for pit ponies and rules governing their welfare. Sometimes stallions were used but geldings were preferred, while mares were very unusual underground. Both Shetland and Welsh ponies were common, as were Dale horses but breeds varied considerably throughout the coal fields. During times of high production and pony shortages very high prices could be paid for good animals.

The selection of each pit pony was carefully considered before it was accepted for work in the mines. Preferably the pony should be between 4 and 5 years old, certainly no more than 14 years old. He had to be sure-footed, strong, low set and heavy limbed to cope with the heavy, relentless work, and he needed a low head to cope with low roofs and steep roadways. Temperament was very important, and a good pit pony had to be even-tempered and kind, as more lively horses were a danger to the drivers and could cause injuries to others and possibly fatal accidents underground. Nervous, timid or shy horses took too much time and expense to break in.

Before a pony started working underground, he went through several weeks training. This time also gave the trainers time to observe the ponies and remove the unsuitable ones before going underground. Once underground, ponies pulled empty tubs or carried materials such as pit props into the workings then brought back tubs full of coal to the shaft. The ponies were expensive and in the interests of the pits continued, uninterrupted work they needed to be kept strong and healthy.
Their stable conditions were very important and much was done to keep the ponies as comfortable as possible which in turn also lengthened their useful working lives. The ponies had to be able to raise their heads in the stables, and the horse should be able to relax its muscles because it had to work all day carrying its head low. Fire prevention meant that as little wood as possible was used in the stable.

Life in the coal mines was never easy for men or ponies, but few working horses have been given better care and respect than the pit pony. Miners respected the sixth sense that the ponies seemed to have for danger, and many were saved from death or injury because their ponies suddenly stopped and refused to go on, then suddenly the roof collapsed in front of them.

In 1913, 70,000 horses were working underground in the UK, which was the peak of employment for horses underground. After that, as mechanical coal cutting and haulage systems became more efficient the use of pit ponies declined. Horse transport could not keep pace with the increasing production of the new coal cutting machines and they began to be replaced by locomotives then conveyors. By the end of the 1930s underground pony numbers had declined to around 32,000, by 1952 there were only around 15,500, by 1973 there were only 490 and in 1984 there were a mere 55 ponies still working.





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