Fairminer - Treneman - Family Tree - Ernest Humpheries Penny

Events

Event	Date	Place	Description	Notes	Sources
Birth	18 February 1878	Pitminster, Somerset, England	Father Edward Penny Brother Charles		1a 3a
Marriage	19 October 1905	Canterbury City of, Kent, England		St Mildred Church Witnesses Lo Worsley Eliza Bryant Helen P Penny They had one son, who was raised by Ernest after they divorce. It is well known that my grand aunt Gertrude had lost a daughter in infancy. A relation said that Gertrude had told her that she had met Ernest at a dance in London.	4a 2b 5a 5b
Divorce	before 1919		Ernest remarried	Something happened and she left her husband, who kept their only child Robert and brought him up. Joy by e-mail . Was it due to Ernest being so long in the Army ? Les T	5c 6a
Marriage	June 1919	Thanet [RD] Kent, England	To Emily Edith Taylor Chamberlain	POSSIBLE ONLY children for Ernest and Emily. PENNY FREDERICA C B born 1922 Romford, Essex, England PENNY KATHLEEN E M born 1920 Taunton, Somerset England & Wales births 1837-2006	6a
Death	December 1942	Bromley, Kent, England	aged 64		7a
Medical Information	1897		Army fit to serve	Height...... 5 foot 6.25 inches Weight.... 132 pounds Chest Minimum.. 33.5 inches ..........Maximum. 35.5 inches Complexion.. Fair Eyes.............. Blue Well Built	2a
Religion	1897		Church of England		2a
		Occupation
Occupation	1897		Labourer		2a
Military Service	between 1897 and 1919		No.4273	Army - 7th Dragoons Guards 11 Nov 1897 – at least 13 Dec 1914 Promoted Sergeant 13 Apr 1904 Promoted Staff Sergeant Major 11 Nov 1913 Appointed Lieutenant 13 Dec 1914 On enlistment, Smart Intelligent Would like to serve in 7th Dragoons with his Cousin Signed on for 7 year plus 5 in Reserves 1897 The page is stamped 18 Jan 1911 Re-enlistment ? 11 Nov 1897 - Home 08 Feb 1900 - South Africa to:- 09 Aug 1904 - Home to:- 17 Sep 1908 - Egypt to:- 03 Oct 1910 - India to:- 20 Sep 1914 - France to :- about 1918 Served 21 years . Medals Queen South Africa with 5 Clasps Johannesburg Diamond Hill Belfast Cape Colony Orange Free State King's South Africa Medal with 2 Clasps South Africa 1901 South Africa 1902 . World War One British Army medal index card Victory British 1914 Star + clasp and Roses	2a
Occupation	1905		Clerk [in Army ?]	Clerk on Army marriage record.	4a
Occupation	1939		Bus Conductor L P T B	For London Passenger Transport Board Retired Lieutenant 7th Dragoons	3a
		Addresses
Residence	1881	Wellington, Somerset, England	Wiltown, Clayhidon	Edward C J Penny Head Married 44 1837 Carpenter & Farmer Of 34 Acres Trull, Somerset Jane Penny Wife Married 41 1840 - Weston Super Mare, Somerset Charley Penny Son Single 19 1862 Carpenter Weston Super Mare, Somerset Frank Penny Son Single 17 1864 Carpenter Clevedon, Somerset Helen E Penny Daughter Single 14 1867 Scholar Somerset Walter Penny Son Single 13 1868 Farmers Son Bathpool, Somerset Bessie M Penny Daughter Single 8 1873 Scholar Blagdon, Somerset Clorrissa E Penny Daughter Single 6 1875 Scholar Blagdon Hill, Somerset Laura M Penny Daughter Single 4 1877 Scholar Blagdon Hill, Somerset Ernest H Penny Son Single 3 1878 - Blagdon Hill, Somerset Arthur P Penny Son Single 1 1880 - Blagdon Hill, Somerset	8a
Residence	1891	Barnstaple, Devon, England	Peakes Cottage, Watersmeet Road, Lynton	Edward Penny Head Widower 53 1838 Carpenter Trull, Somerset Walter Penny Son Single 22 1869 Carpenter Taunton, Somerset Emily Penny Daughter Single 21 1870 - Pitminster, Somerset Laura Penny Daughter 14 1877 - Pitminster, Somerset Ernest Penny Son 13 1878 Errand Boy Pitminster, Somerset Arthur Penny Son 11 1880 Scholar Pitminster, Somerset Katherine Penny Daughter 8 1883 Scholar Pitminster, Somerset	9a
Residence	1901	South Africa	Census not found - With Army in South Africa		2a
Residence	1911	Hislop Barracks Trimulgherry Deccan India	Overseas Military	Gertrude, Ernest and son Robert	10a
Residence	about 1918		Leaving Army after 21 years		2a
Residence	1939	Croydon, Surrey, England	45 Elmwood Road	Ernest (H) Penny 18 Feb 1878 Bus Conductor L P T B Married Emily Edith Penny (Taylor) 18 Jul 1885 Unpaid Domestic Married *Sorry, this record is officially closed*	3a

Families

Family of Ernest Humpheries Penny and Mary Gertrude Bounds

Married

Wife

Mary Gertrude Bounds

Event	Date	Place	Description	Notes	Sources
Marriage (Primary)	19 October 1905	Canterbury City of, Kent, England		St Mildred Church Witnesses Lo Worsley Eliza Bryant Helen P Penny They had one son, who was raised by Ernest after they divorce. It is well known that my grand aunt Gertrude had lost a daughter in infancy. A relation said that Gertrude had told her that she had met Ernest at a dance in London.	4a 2b 5a 5b

Children

Robert Ernest Penny

Media

kings South Africa 1901

Narrative

Robert is, as you put it also a challenge !
It appears that they divorce ? between return from India 1914 and 1919, but Ernest was in the Army and if he had Robert at this time, who took care of him before Ernest second marriage ?
I can not find when Ernest returned from France or when he was discharged but he could have returned before the end of WW1 and was stationed in UK and met his 2nd wife then and may not have taken Robert till his second marriage.
I doubt he was discharged before 1918/1919 so no real time to meet and marry someone, so must have met her before his discharge. Les T

I now remember my father's sister, Gwendoline, who lived in Guildford, once saying that she knew Robert and liked him. She was born about 1916 (Robert would have been about 7 years older) so he must have been with his mother or visiting the family around that area at some time when my aunt would have been old enough to have got to know him. Joy

Have you put your finger on it ??
For Gwendoline to have "Known and liked" Robert, she would have to have been 7 or more ? [A 5 year old would be to young ?]

In the past it was very rare for a husband to have the children, except if he wife died.

So Robert would have been about 14 [1922] and his father's second marriage 3 years old.
This raises the possibility that it was Robert who asked to go and live with his father ?
This would be hard on his mother Gertrude as she would have suffered the lost of her husband and now her son. Les T

Pedigree

1. Ernest Humpheries Penny
  1. Mary Gertrude Bounds
    1. Robert Ernest Penny

Source References

English Government: Birth Registration - Find my Past
1. - Date: June 1878
  - Page: Ernest Humphries Penny
  - Confidence: Very High
  - Citation:
    District TAUNTON
    County Somerset
    Country England
    Volume 5C
    Page 357
    Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
British Army: British Army - Pre WW1 - Service records
1. - Date: 1897
  - Page: Ernest Humpheries Penny
  - Confidence: Very High
  - Citation:
    Series WO 363
    Record set British Army Service Records 1914-1920
    Category Military, armed forces & conflict
    Subcategory First World War
2. - Date: 18 October 1905
  - Page: Mary Gertrude Bounds
  - Confidence: Very High
English Government: 1939 Census - Find my Past
1. - Date: 29 September 1939
  - Page: Ref: RG101/1297K/021/30 Letter Code: CLLK
  - Confidence: Very High
Parish Records: Certificate - Marriage - Parish Record
1. - Date: 19 October 1905
  - Page: Army Record - Mary Gertrude Bounds and Ernest Humpheries Penny
  - Confidence: Very High
  - Citation:
    County Kent
    Country England
    Archive Canterbury Cathedral Archives
    Archive reference U3/89
    Year range 1895-1909
    Page 95
    Record set Kent, Canterbury Archdeaconry marriages 1538-1928
Joy Walker nee Barker: E-mails from Joy Walker nee Barker
1. - Date: 16 September 2015
  - Page: In E-mail file
  - Confidence: Very High
2. - Date: 28 November 2015
  - Page: E-mail in file
  - Confidence: Very High
3. - Date: 16 September 2015
  - Page: In E-mail file
  - Confidence: Very High
English Government: Marriage Registration - Find my Past
1. - Date: June 1919
  - Page: 2q-1919-Thanet, Kent-Vol.2a-page.3010 Ernest Humpheries Penny
  - Confidence: Very High
English Government: Death Registration - Find my Past
1. - Date: December 1942
  - Page: Ernest Humpheries Penny
  - Confidence: Very High
  - Citation:
    District BROMLEY
    County Kent
    Volume 2A
    Page 1003
    Country England
    Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007
English Government: 1881 Census - Find my Past
1. - Date: 4 April 1881
  - Page: Ernest H Penny
  - Confidence: Very High
  - Citation:
    Registration district Wellington
    Archive reference RG11
    Piece number 2363
    Folio 75
    Page 6
    Record set 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
English Government: 1891 Census - Find my Past
1. - Date: 6 April 1891
  - Page: Ernest H Penny
  - Confidence: Very High
  - Citation:
    Registration district Barnstable
    Archive reference RG12
    Piece number 1775
    Folio 40
    Page 12
    Record set 1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
English Government: 1911 Census - Find my Past
1. - Date: 3 April 1911
  - Page: Mary Gertrude Bounds
  - Confidence: Very High
  - Citation:
    County Overseas Military
    Country Ships And Overseas Establishments
    Archive reference RG14
    Registration district number 641
    Enumeration district 30
    Sub district number 16
    Census reference RG14PN34991 RD641 SD16 ED30 SN9999
    Piece number 34991
    Record set 1911 Census for England & Wales

Birth Name	Ernest Humpheries Penny 1a
Also Known As	Ernest Penny 2a
Gender	male
Age at Death	64 years, 9 months, 14 days