I51994: AGNES BACON (ABT 1141

Notes

Stewart Baldwin Wrote: "Supposedly William de Burgh, died 1205 was married to a daughter of Domnall Mor, through whom the lineage goes back to various Irish kings.

Trying to find out more about the claim was one of my projects during my last trip to the Family History Library in Salt Lake City. To my knowledge, the only primary source making the claim is the Book of Lecan (a fifteenth century manuscript), folio 82R. It is in a genealogical tract on the sept known as Uí Maine (later Hy-Many), and was given with an English translation in John O'Donovan's "The Tribes and Customs of Hy-Many" (Dublin, 1843), p. 44 (Irish) and p. 45 (English translation). The full text of the relevant paragraph is as follows:

Irish: Sé meic Domnaill Moir, mic Taidg Taillten, .i. Concobar, ocus Tadg Find Maigi Ruscach, ocus Eogan, ocus Tomas Espoc, ocus Lochlaind, ocus Diarmaid. Ingen Domnall Moir h-I Bhriain, mathair an t-seisir sin, ocus derbsiur di mathair Fheidlimid, mic Cathail Croib-deirg, ocus derbsiur eli doib mathair Ricaird, mic Uilliam Find, o fuil Clann Ricaird.
[Note: The manuscript contains numerous abbreviated forms, which are silently expanded by O'Donovan. For example, the word "ocus" is always an ampersand in the manuscript. There are a few cases where lenition (given by a following "h" in modern Irish) is given as a dot over the letter by O'Donovan, and I have given it by a following "h", due to the lack of the relevant symbols on computer keyboards.]

O'Donovan's English translation: Domhnall Mor, the son of Tadhg Taillten, had six sons, viz., Conchobhar, Tadhg Finn of Magh Ruscach, Eoghan, Thomas the Bishop, Lochlainn, and Diarmaid. The daughter of Domnall Mor O'Brien was the mother of these six sons, and her sister was the mother of Feidlimidh, the son of Cathal Croibhdherg [Charles the Redhanded] O'Conor, and another sister was the mother of Rickard, son of William Finn, from whom are the Clann-Rickard.
[Notes: In a note at the bottom, O'Donovan gives 1263 as the date of death for Thomas the Bishop. O'Donovan has apparently modernized the spellings of the names to nineteenth century forms. The anglicization of "Charles" for "Cathal" would have been later, and it is not likely that Cathal would have been known as "Charles" in his own lifetime. The bracket after "Redhanded was misplaced by O'Donovan, and should have been put after "O'Conor", which is also not in the manuscript.]

The tract, as it exists now, could not have been written before the year 1378, for it refers (p.49 of O'Donovan's translation) to a "Muichertach the Bishop" who is known to have become bishop in that year. On the other hand, the writer was giving an account of the sept Uí Maine, and there would have been no obvious motive for him to invent a mother for Richard de Burgh. Thus, it seems likely that he was either updating an earlier account, or had some other written source for the statement.

However, even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that the above account from the Book of Lecan is correct as it is given, there is another problem, and that is that the descents from this family which are relevant to most people follow through William's son Richard (d.1243), so the marriage, even if true, does not do much good (for the purposes of tracing ancestry from Domnall) unless this Richard can be shown to be a son of that marriage. In the genealogical table in volume 9 of "A New History of Ireland", p. 170, the Clanricard line of the Burkes is traced back to a certain Richard "the younger", who is then given (with a dotted line) as a possible younger son of William de Burgh (d. 1205), and thus as a same-named brother of Richard (d. 1243), ancestor of the de Burgh earls of Ulster. A note at the bottom the page of that genealogical table states: "The origins of the Clanricard line are not absolutely proven, but the descent given is that of the best Irish genealogical sources, and is not contradicted by contemporary sources." Thus, if this is correct, the statement of the Book of Lecan would apply to the younger Richard, and not to the Richard who died in 1243, who would then likely be a son of William by another marriage. Thus, in conclusion, if we accept the account of the Book of Lecan as being accurate, it would apply to the Richard who died in 1243 only if it could be shown that he (and not a younger brother of the same name) were the ancestor of the Burghs of Clanricard.

William de Burgh, has frequently been incorrectly identified in later sources with William Fitz Aldhelm, another Norman leader in Ireland. Thus, if you find a source which is confusing these two men, it is a good idea to take its statements witha grain of salt."
Stewart Baldwin
[email protected] (Stewart Baldwin)

Aka: William De Bourgh (Burgo, Burgh, Burke)

My Southern Family

AGNES BACON

ABT 1141 - ____

ID Number: I51994

Notes

Sources

Elizabeth BOWLING

1787 - BEF 1850

ID Number: I24420

Sources

WILLIAM de BURGH Lord Connacht

ABT 1170 - 1205

ID Number: I26790

Notes

Sources

Sarah Howell EDMUNDS

ABT 1690 - 11 Mar 1750

ID Number: I62228

Sources

Minerva GREGORY

1800 - ____

ID Number: I78090

Sources

G. B. HILL

ABT 1860 - ____

ID Number: I37024

Sources

Howell JONES

ABT 1720 - ____

ID Number: I90690

Notes

Sources

Lucy Bolling RANDOLPH

2 Dec 1796 - 18 Nov 1861

ID Number: I85003

Sources

Walter Guy SANDIDGE

19 Jan 1892 - 4 Mar 1970

ID Number: I40341

Sources

Robert Garland SCOTT

29 Nov 1830 - 14 Dec 1909

ID Number: I45708

Sources

Dr. Herry King STANFORD

16 Jul 1819 - 4 Apr 1886

ID Number: I14249

Notes

Sources

Nehemiah TILGHMAN

ABT 1730 - ____

ID Number: I99378

Notes

Sources